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A real reason for gravel bikes?



 
 
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  #51  
Old February 20th 20, 09:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:03:19 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 2:49:10 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:08:15 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/19/2020 11:39 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 8:44:43 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:44:15 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

As I've stated, I ride and drive on U.S. highways, state highways, on, county roads, on township roads, on city and village streets. All
have different financing systems. I think most get funds from a mix
of sources; for example, local projects often get some state or
federal help.

One problem that's upcoming is the expected drop in gasoline sales
due to electric and hybrid cars. I know a person who recently bought
an electric car, and was surprised to find the licensing fees are
much higher than a gas car, supposedly to help make up that deficit.

I may need to change my attitude, and write thank you notes to the
dudes who buy huge pickup trucks.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank - eight and then six years ago the taxpayers in California passes a 12 cent gas tax increase.. This makes a total of about 45 cents of so. California fuel use is way down - only about 5 million gallons a month for gasoline alone. They also tax diesel more and they even have aviation fuel taxes.

With a yearly income of something like $27 Million you'd expect to see SOME road repairs. The main street in Oakland - Broadway - was literally gravel before they refinished it. Other than that the only other repairs I'd seen is the re-paving of a street in the rich part of town that didn't need it.

They are patching roads here and there by pouring hot tar into the largest cracks. Now large parts of Northern California also want to become part of Greater Idaho.

WTF? Large parts of Northern California are idiots. Look at a map. How about they want to become part of Greater Nevada . . . or Oregon.

BTW, large parts of I-84 in Idaho drive like chipseal, and there are some nasty concrete sections. Taxes are low, and you get what you pay for. https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/lo...2-6b28798fe1b2 IMO, Oregon and Utah have better roads.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ehP?li=BBnb7Kz


What else is new? Several States have secession movements
(none of which, I predict, will be fruitful.):

https://soj51.org/

https://www.newstarget.com/2020-01-1...-virginia.html

Even parts of West Consin (way up nort' beyond civilization
above Hwy 8) would rather be Youpers.

p.s. Not always 'We Shall Be Free'. Sometimes it's more
"Hey You- Just Go Away":

https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifes...7ya-story.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I doubt this one will be as well. But it has political effects. Northern California and most of central California are extremely dissatisfied with the Dimocrat government that wrecks anything and everything it touches. On the TV last night they just showed some guy that has been arrested for felonies 157 times and he was actually laughing into the camera because the San Francisco Attorney General isn't indicting people. And they have no cash bail so the cops check them in and they walk out the front door. He said, "I am thanking the Democrats for this." I think they said that there has been a 4 fold increase in murders and an 8 fold increase in other felonies. This is what San Franciscans asked for and that is exactly what they got. The police chief said that if you don't jail a man who hops the fare gate at BART that the severity of crimes continues to increase. He said that when they caught these guys 95% of them had outstanding felony warrants. Sort of like Jay's heaven.

Endless
crime by people who don't have to pay for anything.

The Dimocrats are that thin blue line between you and financial ruin, i.e. Social Security and Medicare. For such a conservative, you're basically a welfare queen with less money in your 401K than the rich Dimocrats keep in their sock drawers to tip the paperboy. You hug and kiss all the Dimocrats and say "thank you for my social security welfare. Thank you for my low cost medical insurance." You're another ersatz rugged individual sucking at the government teat. And you're living in a ********. For being Mr. Mensa, you make the stupidest decisions.

-- Jay Beattie.


Wasn't California a state that instituted the "3 strikes and you're
out" thing where habitual criminals were kept in jail?
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #52  
Old February 20th 20, 09:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 14:59:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 1:12:52 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:23:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In 10 years, were going to start turning roads back into gravel if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.


I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth.

Lou
--
- Frank Krygowski

That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada.

Cheers

This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since?


????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads. The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA. People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced. How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too.

But yet roads built in the days of the Roman empire are still in use
today albeit with another layer of surfacing although I believe that
there are sections of the Via Appia and possibly the Via Aurelia
where the original paving is still used.

To be a bit pedantic a semi truck don't necessarily destroy roads, it
is the tire loading is the determining factor and it is quite possible
for a small, heavily loaded, truck to have a higher tire loading and
thus do more damage to a road than a large truck, with more wheels and
wider tires and thus having a lighter tire loading.,

I once did a study of wheel loading and potential road damage for the
Indonesian National Highway Department demonstrating that 50 ton
Oilfield trucks actually caused less damage to the highway than the
small, grossly overloaded, 3 ton trucks commonly used by small
freight companies.
--
cheers,

John B.


True, it is the pounds per square inch that is the decider. But big trucks, or the small freight trucks you describe, or gravel dump trucks, have the highest pounds per square inch. And do all the damage to roads. In the USA 80,000 pounds is the maximum weight of an 18 wheel semi truck. That is 4,444 pounds per tire. A Toyota Camry weighs 3500 pounds. Or 875 pounds per tire. For these two vehicles to be equal for weight per square inch on the road, the semi tire would have to be 5 TIMES more surface area touching the road. I have looked at tires on semi trucks and Camrys. The semi tire does not have 5 times more surface area. Semi tire has about 2 or 3 times more surface area.


The surface pressure of semi's is so high that in some places it causes the road to melt and run under the tires. That is why concrete should be used on commercial roads.


Whatever are you smoking. The pressure exerted by each large truck's
tire (11R24.5 for example) is in the neighborhood of 40 psi.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #54  
Old February 20th 20, 02:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

On 2/20/2020 12:16 AM, John B. wrote:

snip

Wasn't California a state that instituted the "3 strikes and you're
out" thing where habitual criminals were kept in jail?
--
cheers,

John B.


Like many laws, it was a poorly thought out, feel-good law. It created
tremendous prison over-crowding, keeping many people in prison that were
no threat. One person received a life sentence for his third
strike--stealing a piece of pizza from a group at a birthday party in a
pizza place, even though he asked one of the kids for a slice and the
kid nodded yes. The kid said that he was scared and prosecutors said
that it was "robbery by intimidation."

The 3 strikes law resulted in another poorly thought out law, Prop 47,
that allowed habitual criminals to not go to prison in an effort to
comply with federal mandates to reduce prison over-crowding. It has led
to a wave of retail theft and car break-ins
https://www.independent.org/news/news_detail.asp?newsID=1247.

Go to a department store or a drug store these days and it's almost like
back in the olden days where a shop employee has to get you the
merchandise. And we're not just talking about liquor or smart phones,
we're talking about Tide detergent, bicycle accessories, ibuprofen,
sometimes even candy. It's locked up
https://sacobserver.com/2018/01/shoplifting-is-to-blame-for-locked-up-items-not-walmart/.

  #56  
Old February 20th 20, 03:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

On 2/19/2020 11:40 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 06:44:06 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 7:27:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:29:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:47:53 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

In 10 years, were going to start turning roads back into gravel if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

And then there are bridges. I go over this one to see my brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSTcKLJ5gw From above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmnC05Ou7w It's scary narrow, and its scheduled to be replaced as soon as the bridge toll piggy bank is full.

Looks like a normal two lane bridge built for trucks and automobiles,
one lane each way. What more could one want?


Well, I could want lanes that were not scaled for Model Ts and could do without a metal deck that steers the car (particularly with the usual high wind), and I could want a bridge that allows bicycles, but apart from that, nothing.

-- Jay Beattie.


But the bridge, the second oldest road bridge across the Columbia
between Washington and Oregon, was built by the Oregon-Washington
Bridge Company and opened on December 9, 1924, when the Model T sold
for 265 gold backed dollars.

Of course, you could advocate tearing it down and building a new
bridge... didn't San Francisco do something like that :-?
--
cheers,

John B.


Perfectly normal:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN1SS1DE

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #57  
Old February 20th 20, 04:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

Am 20.02.2020 um 15:10 schrieb AMuzi:
On 2/19/2020 11:40 PM, John B. wrote:


But the bridge, the second oldest road bridge across the Columbia
between Washington and Oregon,* was built by the Oregon-Washington
Bridge Company and opened on December 9, 1924, when the Model T sold
for 265 gold backed dollars.

* Of course, you could advocate tearing it down and building a new
bridge... didn't San Francisco do something like that :-?


Perfectly normal:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN1SS1DE


this was not exactly "tearing it down" but "removing the debris", the
way "tried and tested" also in Minneapolis, MN a few years earlier.

In Germany, we prefer to build a new bridge first and then tear down the
old one (actually at the A6 motorway Neckar crossing, they first built a
new bridge some 20 yards down the river on new temporary piers, secondly
blew up the (40 year) old bridge, step three is building a second new
bridge with wider piers on the site of the old bridge and step 4 will
be to move the first new bridge onto the shared piers of the second new
bridge and remove the temporary piers).

  #58  
Old February 20th 20, 05:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 14:59:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 1:12:52 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:23:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In 10 years, were going to start turning roads back into gravel if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.


I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They
are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride
also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are
awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the
invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium.
Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth.

Lou
--
- Frank Krygowski

That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada.

Cheers

This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good
roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since?


????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the
national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he
observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not
two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads.
The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There
were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA.
People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need
stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the
stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the
stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks
on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced.
How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven
today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too.

But yet roads built in the days of the Roman empire are still in use
today albeit with another layer of surfacing although I believe that
there are sections of the Via Appia and possibly the Via Aurelia
where the original paving is still used.

To be a bit pedantic a semi truck don't necessarily destroy roads, it
is the tire loading is the determining factor and it is quite possible
for a small, heavily loaded, truck to have a higher tire loading and
thus do more damage to a road than a large truck, with more wheels and
wider tires and thus having a lighter tire loading.,

I once did a study of wheel loading and potential road damage for the
Indonesian National Highway Department demonstrating that 50 ton
Oilfield trucks actually caused less damage to the highway than the
small, grossly overloaded, 3 ton trucks commonly used by small
freight companies.
--
cheers,

John B.

True, it is the pounds per square inch that is the decider. But big
trucks, or the small freight trucks you describe, or gravel dump
trucks, have the highest pounds per square inch. And do all the damage
to roads. In the USA 80,000 pounds is the maximum weight of an 18
wheel semi truck. That is 4,444 pounds per tire. A Toyota Camry
weighs 3500 pounds. Or 875 pounds per tire. For these two vehicles to
be equal for weight per square inch on the road, the semi tire would
have to be 5 TIMES more surface area touching the road. I have looked
at tires on semi trucks and Camrys. The semi tire does not have 5
times more surface area. Semi tire has about 2 or 3 times more surface area.


The surface pressure of semi's is so high that in some places it causes
the road to melt and run under the tires. That is why concrete should be
used on commercial roads.


Whatever are you smoking. The pressure exerted by each large truck's
tire (11R24.5 for example) is in the neighborhood of 40 psi.
--
cheers,

John B.



It would seem to me that to a first approximation, the road loading of a
tire would be in the vicinity of the inflation pressure of the tire. My
subcompact runs 32 psi, my minivan runs 35 psi, and large truck tires tend
to be inflated around 110 psi.

  #59  
Old February 20th 20, 08:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 13:41:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel” if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.


I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth.

Lou
--
- Frank Krygowski


That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada.

Cheers


This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? They are continually asking for additional taxes for road repairs. People, sick of the poor roads comply and pass these taxes and nothing seems to ever come of them. I noted road repairs after the last gas tax increase - in one rich neighborhood that had good roads to begin with.

  #60  
Old February 21st 20, 12:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default A real reason for gravel bikes?

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 16:15:03 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 14:59:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 1:12:52 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:23:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In 10 years, were going to start turning roads back into gravel if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.


I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They
are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride
also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are
awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the
invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium.
Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth.

Lou
--
- Frank Krygowski

That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada.

Cheers

This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good
roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since?


????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the
national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he
observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not
two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads.
The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There
were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA.
People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need
stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the
stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the
stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks
on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced.
How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven
today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too.

But yet roads built in the days of the Roman empire are still in use
today albeit with another layer of surfacing although I believe that
there are sections of the Via Appia and possibly the Via Aurelia
where the original paving is still used.

To be a bit pedantic a semi truck don't necessarily destroy roads, it
is the tire loading is the determining factor and it is quite possible
for a small, heavily loaded, truck to have a higher tire loading and
thus do more damage to a road than a large truck, with more wheels and
wider tires and thus having a lighter tire loading.,

I once did a study of wheel loading and potential road damage for the
Indonesian National Highway Department demonstrating that 50 ton
Oilfield trucks actually caused less damage to the highway than the
small, grossly overloaded, 3 ton trucks commonly used by small
freight companies.
--
cheers,

John B.

True, it is the pounds per square inch that is the decider. But big
trucks, or the small freight trucks you describe, or gravel dump
trucks, have the highest pounds per square inch. And do all the damage
to roads. In the USA 80,000 pounds is the maximum weight of an 18
wheel semi truck. That is 4,444 pounds per tire. A Toyota Camry
weighs 3500 pounds. Or 875 pounds per tire. For these two vehicles to
be equal for weight per square inch on the road, the semi tire would
have to be 5 TIMES more surface area touching the road. I have looked
at tires on semi trucks and Camrys. The semi tire does not have 5
times more surface area. Semi tire has about 2 or 3 times more surface area.

The surface pressure of semi's is so high that in some places it causes
the road to melt and run under the tires. That is why concrete should be
used on commercial roads.


Whatever are you smoking. The pressure exerted by each large truck's
tire (11R24.5 for example) is in the neighborhood of 40 psi.
--
cheers,

John B.



It would seem to me that to a first approximation, the road loading of a
tire would be in the vicinity of the inflation pressure of the tire. My
subcompact runs 32 psi, my minivan runs 35 psi, and large truck tires tend
to be inflated around 110 psi.


Yes tire pressure is related to vehicle weight but the amount(area) of
tire actually in contact with the ground is the final determining
factor.
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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