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#11
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary |
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#12
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#13
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On 2/21/2020 2:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary I don't see how that would weaken the rims in any significant way. When laced, the rims are in compression overall, and I don't see how those new holes would cause compression failure. I think the other main stresses are outward bending stress on the sidewalls and tension stress from spokes pulling on the spoke bed, but your holes shouldn't change those. The surface you're drilling is close to the neutral axis for bending stresses in any direction, so it's probably not heavily stressed in that way. There may be questions about whether the work is worth it, but ISTM you've got little to lose by trying it, if you want to. Just do your best to test it before riding it afterwards. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique isÂ* a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. .... and I'd certainly try that first. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#15
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique is* a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. ... and I'd certainly try that first. With a brass nipple :-? -- cheers, John B. |
#16
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On 2/21/2020 5:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique isÂ* a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. ... and I'd certainly try that first. With a brass nipple :-? As I understand it, the magnet pulls the end of the line, not the nipple. The line pulls the nipple. There are other ways. Here a guy puts a steel screw temporarily in each nipple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeZfRD-fQ4 Here's a guy blowing a string through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL-de9maci4 Here's a guy just fishing around with a wi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiF5ouOokIc I've put aftermarket trailer hitches on several different cars. That involves a somewhat similar problem. The attachment bolts have to be fed into hollow frame members through holes at one location and somehow pulled out, threaded end first, through a different hole in the frame, leaving the head inside the frame member. The solution that comes with the hitch kit is a "fish wire" https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Curt/C58390.html - a stiff wire that ends in a helix that acts as a female thread. You screw the bolt into the helix, poke the free end of the wire in and through the frame member until it comes out the proper hole, then just pull the bolt into place. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#17
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On 2/21/2020 4:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. ... and I'd certainly try that first. With a brass nipple :-? -- cheers, John B. The steel end is attached to a nylon cord, the magnet directs the steel part to the rim hole. Pull the cord and the nipple on the other end drops in place. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#18
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
That is a lot work compared to simply threading nipple through hole above and attaching the spoke. I guess I am truly a retro-bike old timer.......but I don’t have downtube shifters. Probably I am not pure but I do remove all reflectors.
Deacon Mark Cleary |
#19
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:16:08 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 4:49 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. ... and I'd certainly try that first. With a brass nipple :-? -- cheers, John B. The steel end is attached to a nylon cord, the magnet directs the steel part to the rim hole. Pull the cord and the nipple on the other end drops in place. Reading you and Franks explanations it seems as though the brass nipple is tied to the string which has a magnet tied to the other end which is drawn through the wheel by attraction to something made of steel. Given that the O.P. seems to believe that tubeless tires are a abomination of the Devil I think I'd just drill a hole in the inner rim surface... like a "regular wheel"? -- cheers, John B. |
#20
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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl
On 2/21/2020 7:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:16:08 -0600, AMuzi wrote: On 2/21/2020 4:49 PM, John B. wrote: On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote: On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote: Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions. So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know? So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too. end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic Deacon Mark Cleary Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster. Deacon Mark Cleary The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do. ... and I'd certainly try that first. With a brass nipple :-? -- cheers, John B. The steel end is attached to a nylon cord, the magnet directs the steel part to the rim hole. Pull the cord and the nipple on the other end drops in place. Reading you and Franks explanations it seems as though the brass nipple is tied to the string which has a magnet tied to the other end which is drawn through the wheel by attraction to something made of steel. Given that the O.P. seems to believe that tubeless tires are a abomination of the Devil I think I'd just drill a hole in the inner rim surface... like a "regular wheel"? -- cheers, John B. Yes that was Mark's thought. Mine was, "why?" He likely won't be any better off than simply dropping the tension, lubricating spoke threads and tensioning the wheel, which is reasonably quick work. One more thought. Mark, before drilling your rim bed, see if a tire fits easily when you add a rim liner to the center section. Some tubeless rim designs don't have enough depth difference from the bead seat to the center well for hands-only tire changes. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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