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No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 21st 20, 08:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark Cleary[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 109
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary


Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary
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  #12  
Old February 21st 20, 09:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary


Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to
direct the nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not
difficult to do.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #13  
Old February 21st 20, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On 2/21/2020 2:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20 holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary


Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


I don't see how that would weaken the rims in any significant way. When
laced, the rims are in compression overall, and I don't see how those
new holes would cause compression failure.

I think the other main stresses are outward bending stress on the
sidewalls and tension stress from spokes pulling on the spoke bed, but
your holes shouldn't change those. The surface you're drilling is close
to the neutral axis for bending stresses in any direction, so it's
probably not heavily stressed in that way.

There may be questions about whether the work is worth it, but ISTM
you've got little to lose by trying it, if you want to. Just do your
best to test it before riding it afterwards.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old February 21st 20, 09:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them
anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the
proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with
plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use
regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am
not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to
that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a
tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the
nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20
holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I
know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but
do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for
ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable
and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD
spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really
don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go
customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only
place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary


Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so
you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down
to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over
the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put
spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique isÂ* a steel ended nylon line to direct the
nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do.


.... and I'd certainly try that first.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old February 21st 20, 11:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them
anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the
proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with
plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use
regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am
not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to
that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a
tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the
nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20
holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I
know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but
do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for
ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable
and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD
spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really
don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go
customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only
place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so
you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down
to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over
the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put
spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique is* a steel ended nylon line to direct the
nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do.


... and I'd certainly try that first.


With a brass nipple :-?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #16  
Old February 22nd 20, 01:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On 2/21/2020 5:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them
anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the
proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with
plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use
regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am
not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to
that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a
tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the
nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20
holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I
know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but
do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for
ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable
and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD
spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really
don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go
customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only
place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so
you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down
to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over
the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put
spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique isÂ* a steel ended nylon line to direct the
nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do.


... and I'd certainly try that first.


With a brass nipple :-?


As I understand it, the magnet pulls the end of the line, not the
nipple. The line pulls the nipple.

There are other ways. Here a guy puts a steel screw temporarily in each
nipple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeZfRD-fQ4

Here's a guy blowing a string through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL-de9maci4

Here's a guy just fishing around with a wi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiF5ouOokIc

I've put aftermarket trailer hitches on several different cars. That
involves a somewhat similar problem. The attachment bolts have to be fed
into hollow frame members through holes at one location and somehow
pulled out, threaded end first, through a different hole in the frame,
leaving the head inside the frame member.

The solution that comes with the hitch kit is a "fish wire"
https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Curt/C58390.html - a stiff wire that ends
in a helix that acts as a female thread. You screw the bolt into the
helix, poke the free end of the wire in and through the frame member
until it comes out the proper hole, then just pull the bolt into place.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old February 22nd 20, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On 2/21/2020 4:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them
anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the
proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with
plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use
regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am
not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to
that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a
tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the
nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20
holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I
know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but
do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for
ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable
and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD
spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really
don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go
customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only
place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so
you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down
to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over
the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put
spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the
nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do.


... and I'd certainly try that first.


With a brass nipple :-?
--
cheers,

John B.


The steel end is attached to a nylon cord, the magnet
directs the steel part to the rim hole. Pull the cord and
the nipple on the other end drops in place.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old February 22nd 20, 02:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark Cleary[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 109
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

That is a lot work compared to simply threading nipple through hole above and attaching the spoke. I guess I am truly a retro-bike old timer.......but I don’t have downtube shifters. Probably I am not pure but I do remove all reflectors.

Deacon Mark Cleary
  #19  
Old February 22nd 20, 02:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:16:08 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/21/2020 4:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them
anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the
proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with
plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use
regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am
not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to
that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a
tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the
nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20
holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I
know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but
do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for
ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable
and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD
spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really
don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go
customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only
place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so
you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down
to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over
the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put
spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the
nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do.

... and I'd certainly try that first.


With a brass nipple :-?
--
cheers,

John B.


The steel end is attached to a nylon cord, the magnet
directs the steel part to the rim hole. Pull the cord and
the nipple on the other end drops in place.


Reading you and Franks explanations it seems as though the brass
nipple is tied to the string which has a magnet tied to the other end
which is drawn through the wheel by attraction to something made of
steel.

Given that the O.P. seems to believe that tubeless tires are a
abomination of the Devil I think I'd just drill a hole in the inner
rim surface... like a "regular wheel"?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #20  
Old February 22nd 20, 02:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default No real bike mechanics of old time rim hepl

On 2/21/2020 7:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:16:08 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/21/2020 4:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:29:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/21/2020 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2020 1:47 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 3:56:59 PM UTC-6, Mark Cleary wrote:
Ok, I have this crappy Shimano RS61 wheelset. I don't use them
anymore but frankly they were ok for a lot miles. The problem is the
proprietary spokes and nipples. I want to rebuild the wheels with
plain old DB spokes but will need to be straight pull. I want to use
regular brass nips and this rim has no nipple holes tubeless. I am
not going to run tubeless and never did, ( cannot see any benefit to
that set up) but the process to get the nipples in the rim will be a
tedious pain. Not worth the trouble under ordinary conditions.

So the question is can I just drill holes on the out wall to put the
nipples in. This would take way less time and only be 16 and 20
holes. I can't see how the rim would be compromised but what do I
know? Then of course will regular nipples go in the rim I assume but
do I know?

So now for my rant. They have made bikes way to complicated for
ordinary folks. Does anyone build a bike with all the proved reliable
and easy stuff to maintain. Threaded BB, standard wheels with BD
spokes and nipples, and frankly cables buried in the frame really
don't make things any better. It seems to get all this you got to go
customer Ti or steel ( I did) but a CF bike is good to have on hand too.

end of rant give me the drill hole question could be this is the only
place to find a real mechanic

Deacon Mark Cleary

Maybe I am not clear. I the rims have no holes to thread the nipple so
you have to get the nipple through the valve stem hole and then down
to the proper spoke hole. All I want to do is drill another hole over
the top of each spoke hole like a normal rim. Much easier to put
spokes in and faster.

Deacon Mark Cleary


The recommended technique is a steel ended nylon line to direct the
nipple pulled with a ceramic magnet. It's not difficult to do.

... and I'd certainly try that first.

With a brass nipple :-?
--
cheers,

John B.


The steel end is attached to a nylon cord, the magnet
directs the steel part to the rim hole. Pull the cord and
the nipple on the other end drops in place.


Reading you and Franks explanations it seems as though the brass
nipple is tied to the string which has a magnet tied to the other end
which is drawn through the wheel by attraction to something made of
steel.

Given that the O.P. seems to believe that tubeless tires are a
abomination of the Devil I think I'd just drill a hole in the inner
rim surface... like a "regular wheel"?
--
cheers,

John B.


Yes that was Mark's thought. Mine was, "why?" He likely
won't be any better off than simply dropping the tension,
lubricating spoke threads and tensioning the wheel, which is
reasonably quick work.

One more thought.
Mark, before drilling your rim bed, see if a tire fits
easily when you add a rim liner to the center section. Some
tubeless rim designs don't have enough depth difference from
the bead seat to the center well for hands-only tire changes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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