Creeping brake pad drag

On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 11:39:55 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 1:58:13 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 3:01:51 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 9:37:21 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In my view, putting immense complexity into a sealed black box
does not make a system "simple."

From a user standpoint, Di2 is very simple -- more simple than cables.. No tension adjustment or lubrication, and no sticking after riding in muck. You have to charge it now and then -- and you can get fussy with programming (on bike, no computer necessary for certain settings). Electronic shifting is not an imperative, and it's expensive, but its a reasonable choice.

Well, sure, everything is a reasonable choice for someone in some situations.

But "no tension adjustment or lubrication"? I can't remember the last time I
did a so-called tension adjustment on anything but the folding bike; and for
whatever reason, that one seemed to settle down early this year. I think all
my shift cables are lined with plastic, but for whatever reason, I don't ever
seem to have to lubricate them. Well, except for where they pass through that
open plastic channel under the bottom bracket of one bike, and that's only
very rarely. Other lubrication? A Di2 derailleur still has mechanical pivoting
joints, doesn't it?

It's OK if someone wants to buy e-shifting. And given basic early adopter psychology, plus normal pride of ownership, it's a given that most who spend
many hundreds of dollars for its tiny benefits will say it's worth it.

But it seems obvious that 99.9999% of the world's cyclists - and even cycling
enthusiasts - get along just fine with mechanical systems. This choice proves
that, at best, bike technology is now way, way deep into diminishing returns.

And I really do think there's an important difference between "simple to use
because of incredible complexity built into a tiny box" and just plain "simple."
That difference shows up when something goes wrong.

- Frank Krygowski

Because all modern bikes use a plastic cable router under the bottom bracket I've never had to lubricate those. Older frames with steel routers did have to be cleaned and lubed or they would wear grooves in the frame that could wear out the cable where it crossed.

Never had a leaking water bottle with energy drink in it?

Lou

On Sunday, 24 November 2019 18:03:26 UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 11:59:10 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 15:14:40 UTC-5, Duane wrote:


You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

Some people still argue that Brifters or Ergos aren't needed on ANY bicycle.

"Needed"?

I'd say brifters are needed to be competitive in a criterium race. They're
often, but not always, needed to be competitive in the final sprint of a road
race.

When else are they "needed"?

I wonder how heated the arguments would have been had the internet been around when the transition from wooden frames or from wooden wheels to metal ones or from solid rubber tires to pneumatic tires?

When pneumatic tires were introduced, it became impossible to win a race on
solid tires. The difference in rolling resistance was that dramatic. So was
the difference in comfort.

The same can be said about multiple gears. Very soon, everybody saw the advantages
and knew the benefits outweighed the detriments.

But since then, returns on technology have diminished. The benefits of most
innovations since, oh, 2000 or so are barely measurable in most situations.

- Frank Krygowski

I came across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mJ06mro5fw

Lou

So the differences between a retro bike with modern kit and a modern bike with modern kit are @25hph 8 watts, @35 kph 21 Watts, and @45 kph 25 Watts. I'm not up on the Watts measurements so must ask, just how significant are those increases?

Cheers

On 11/24/2019 4:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 12:14:40 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 7:32:57 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

BTW, I'm curious how many bikes you own, and how many have electronic
shifting. I have five bikes that I ride regularly, so I suspect
converting all to electronic shifting would be quite expensive. Have you
done that?

I have 7 bikes and I will end up this year with 11000 km. Two of the
bikes are ridden less than 500 km/yr. Two of them have Di2. I don't
convert bikes to Di2 they already had Di2 when bought. If I would buy a
new bike it will be equipped with electronic shifting.

Lou


11000 km is pretty impressive. I do about half that but the season here
is April through November. I gave up on riding in snow.

I’m down to one road bike. It doesn’t have Di2 or disc brakes but I expect
the next bike will have both. Not that I’ll shop for that but I doubt road
bikes will come without them. My friends that have Di2 now have it for
the most part because the bike they liked came with it. They seem to like
it and I haven’t heard of anyone complaining about problems.

You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

The lever effort has gotten so light for the latest Ultegra 11sp and shifting so accurate that Di2 is truly a luxury item for non-racers. It's nice, but not an imperative for me. I was riding my Emonda SLR yesterday with rim brakes and cable shifting, and it was great. No bad stops and no missed shifts. It was dry, though. Today was wet, and I would have taken my Di2 disc Synapse, but instead I went for a walk with my wife through the fairy kingdom down the street at Tryon Creek State Park. https://www.oregonhikers.org/w/image...leyBridge1.jpg I needed a day off.

My daily commute mileage is short, but commuting every day -- even if short -- takes it out my legs, and I had a pretty good speed run yesterday, so I went for a walk today. Soon Sunday will be the weekly ski day if scientifically proven global warming doesn't ruin the season.

-- Jay Beattie.


A modest bet, as one would bet black or red at roulette,
seems indicated:

https://www.timberlinelodge.com/moun...ical-snow-data

Anyone see a pattern in the data[1] without smoking special
brain enhancements? I don't.

[1] data set spans only 70 years, so there's that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/24/2019 4:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 1:58:13 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 3:01:51 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 9:37:21 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In my view, putting immense complexity into a sealed black box
does not make a system "simple."

From a user standpoint, Di2 is very simple -- more simple than cables. No tension adjustment or lubrication, and no sticking after riding in muck. You have to charge it now and then -- and you can get fussy with programming (on bike, no computer necessary for certain settings). Electronic shifting is not an imperative, and it's expensive, but its a reasonable choice.

Well, sure, everything is a reasonable choice for someone in some situations.

But "no tension adjustment or lubrication"? I can't remember the last time I
did a so-called tension adjustment on anything but the folding bike; and for
whatever reason, that one seemed to settle down early this year. I think all
my shift cables are lined with plastic, but for whatever reason, I don't ever
seem to have to lubricate them. Well, except for where they pass through that
open plastic channel under the bottom bracket of one bike, and that's only
very rarely. Other lubrication? A Di2 derailleur still has mechanical pivoting
joints, doesn't it?

It's OK if someone wants to buy e-shifting. And given basic early adopter psychology, plus normal pride of ownership, it's a given that most who spend
many hundreds of dollars for its tiny benefits will say it's worth it.

But it seems obvious that 99.9999% of the world's cyclists - and even cycling
enthusiasts - get along just fine with mechanical systems. This choice proves
that, at best, bike technology is now way, way deep into diminishing returns.

And I really do think there's an important difference between "simple to use
because of incredible complexity built into a tiny box" and just plain "simple."
That difference shows up when something goes wrong.

- Frank Krygowski

Because all modern bikes use a plastic cable router under the bottom bracket I've never had to lubricate those. Older frames with steel routers did have to be cleaned and lubed or they would wear grooves in the frame that could wear out the cable where it crossed.


You'd be surprised.
Yes, classic over-the-BB steel guides were worse but we
regularly solve mystery shift troubles by brushing out the
dead worms, energy drink and crud from a nylon guide and
adding a drop of oil.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 12:14:40 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 7:32:57 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

BTW, I'm curious how many bikes you own, and how many have electronic
shifting. I have five bikes that I ride regularly, so I suspect
converting all to electronic shifting would be quite expensive. Have you
done that?

I have 7 bikes and I will end up this year with 11000 km. Two of the
bikes are ridden less than 500 km/yr. Two of them have Di2. I don't
convert bikes to Di2 they already had Di2 when bought. If I would buy a
new bike it will be equipped with electronic shifting.

Lou


11000 km is pretty impressive. I do about half that but the season here
is April through November. I gave up on riding in snow.

I’m down to one road bike. It doesn’t have Di2 or disc brakes but I expect
the next bike will have both. Not that I’ll shop for that but I doubt road
bikes will come without them. My friends that have Di2 now have it for
the most part because the bike they liked came with it. They seem to like
it and I haven’t heard of anyone complaining about problems.

You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

The lever effort has gotten so light for the latest Ultegra 11sp and
shifting so accurate that Di2 is truly a luxury item for non-racers.
It's nice, but not an imperative for me. I was riding my Emonda SLR
yesterday with rim brakes and cable shifting, and it was great. No bad
stops and no missed shifts. It was dry, though. Today was wet, and I
would have taken my Di2 disc Synapse, but instead I went for a walk with
my wife through the fairy kingdom down the street at Tryon Creek State
Park. https://www.oregonhikers.org/w/image...leyBridge1.jpg I
needed a day off.


I have 11 speed SRAM and it works well. But honestly a typical 105 setup
today is light years ahead of the stuff we rode in the old days with
friction shifters and toe clips. Anyone can argue that new tech isn’t
necessary. Seems silly. Like I said my next bike will likely have
electronic shifting because it will be standard.

My daily commute mileage is short, but commuting every day -- even if
short -- takes it out my legs, and I had a pretty good speed run
yesterday, so I went for a walk today. Soon Sunday will be the weekly
ski day if scientifically proven global warming doesn't ruin the season.

-- Jay Beattie.


We’ve had snow cover since November 11 which is pretty unusual. Normally I
can commute until December. I’m on my trainer now and will be skiing
soon.

On 11/24/2019 5:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 18:03:26 UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 11:59:10 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 15:14:40 UTC-5, Duane wrote:


You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

Some people still argue that Brifters or Ergos aren't needed on ANY bicycle.

"Needed"?

I'd say brifters are needed to be competitive in a criterium race. They're
often, but not always, needed to be competitive in the final sprint of a road
race.

When else are they "needed"?

I wonder how heated the arguments would have been had the internet been around when the transition from wooden frames or from wooden wheels to metal ones or from solid rubber tires to pneumatic tires?

When pneumatic tires were introduced, it became impossible to win a race on
solid tires. The difference in rolling resistance was that dramatic. So was
the difference in comfort.

The same can be said about multiple gears. Very soon, everybody saw the advantages
and knew the benefits outweighed the detriments.

But since then, returns on technology have diminished. The benefits of most
innovations since, oh, 2000 or so are barely measurable in most situations.

- Frank Krygowski

I came across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mJ06mro5fw

Lou

So the differences between a retro bike with modern kit and a modern bike with modern kit are @25hph 8 watts, @35 kph 21 Watts, and @45 kph 25 Watts. I'm not up on the Watts measurements so must ask, just how significant are those increases?

Cheers


Sir Bradley Wiggins held 440W for an e n t i r e h o u r

None of us did or could.

Some very high (1400W, 1500W) numbers are reported for 10 or
20 second bursts but that's a different thing IMHO.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 3:48:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/24/2019 4:06 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 12:14:40 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 7:32:57 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

BTW, I'm curious how many bikes you own, and how many have electronic
shifting. I have five bikes that I ride regularly, so I suspect
converting all to electronic shifting would be quite expensive. Have you
done that?

I have 7 bikes and I will end up this year with 11000 km. Two of the
bikes are ridden less than 500 km/yr. Two of them have Di2. I don't
convert bikes to Di2 they already had Di2 when bought. If I would buy a
new bike it will be equipped with electronic shifting.

Lou


11000 km is pretty impressive. I do about half that but the season here
is April through November. I gave up on riding in snow.

I’m down to one road bike. It doesn’t have Di2 or disc brakes but I expect
the next bike will have both. Not that I’ll shop for that but I doubt road
bikes will come without them. My friends that have Di2 now have it for
the most part because the bike they liked came with it. They seem to like
it and I haven’t heard of anyone complaining about problems.

You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

The lever effort has gotten so light for the latest Ultegra 11sp and shifting so accurate that Di2 is truly a luxury item for non-racers. It's nice, but not an imperative for me. I was riding my Emonda SLR yesterday with rim brakes and cable shifting, and it was great. No bad stops and no missed shifts. It was dry, though. Today was wet, and I would have taken my Di2 disc Synapse, but instead I went for a walk with my wife through the fairy kingdom down the street at Tryon Creek State Park. https://www.oregonhikers.org/w/image...leyBridge1.jpg I needed a day off.

My daily commute mileage is short, but commuting every day -- even if short -- takes it out my legs, and I had a pretty good speed run yesterday, so I went for a walk today. Soon Sunday will be the weekly ski day if scientifically proven global warming doesn't ruin the season.

-- Jay Beattie.


A modest bet, as one would bet black or red at roulette,
seems indicated:

https://www.timberlinelodge.com/moun...ical-snow-data

Anyone see a pattern in the data[1] without smoking special
brain enhancements? I don't.

[1] data set spans only 70 years, so there's that.

I knew my comment would bring out the global warming deniers! It is true that the snow data is all over the map -- mostly because of our odd El Nino weather patterns among other things. https://tinyurl.com/rhxcggu BTW, the Timberline data is not very official for a number of reasons, but the NOAA is fairly similar. What I see is dwindling snow at lower elevations -- unreliable seasons at Ski Bowl and a shorter summer seasons on Palmer, although 2017 was good. We're having an unseasonably warm November with no snow in sight so far, but that's really to be expected. Thanksgiving openings are rare and often short lived. My son has been skiing two or three times in Salt Lake, but he is skiing AT without lifts at Alta, which hasn't opened yet.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, 24 November 2019 19:15:29 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/24/2019 5:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 18:03:26 UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 11:59:10 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 15:14:40 UTC-5, Duane wrote:


You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

Some people still argue that Brifters or Ergos aren't needed on ANY bicycle.

"Needed"?

I'd say brifters are needed to be competitive in a criterium race. They're
often, but not always, needed to be competitive in the final sprint of a road
race.

When else are they "needed"?

I wonder how heated the arguments would have been had the internet been around when the transition from wooden frames or from wooden wheels to metal ones or from solid rubber tires to pneumatic tires?

When pneumatic tires were introduced, it became impossible to win a race on
solid tires. The difference in rolling resistance was that dramatic. So was
the difference in comfort.

The same can be said about multiple gears. Very soon, everybody saw the advantages
and knew the benefits outweighed the detriments.

But since then, returns on technology have diminished. The benefits of most
innovations since, oh, 2000 or so are barely measurable in most situations.

- Frank Krygowski

I came across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mJ06mro5fw

Lou

So the differences between a retro bike with modern kit and a modern bike with modern kit are @25hph 8 watts, @35 kph 21 Watts, and @45 kph 25 Watts. I'm not up on the Watts measurements so must ask, just how significant are those increases?

Cheers


Sir Bradley Wiggins held 440W for an e n t i r e h o u r

None of us did or could.

Some very high (1400W, 1500W) numbers are reported for 10 or
20 second bursts but that's a different thing IMHO.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So, just how much difference do those wattage differences from the video and which numbers I posted make in real life?

Cheers

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:09:57 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:38:47 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, 23 November 2019 20:12:07 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 16:30:21 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, 23 November 2019 18:43:26 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 13:58:10 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 3:01:51 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 9:37:21 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In my view, putting immense complexity into a sealed black box
does not make a system "simple."

From a user standpoint, Di2 is very simple -- more simple
than cables. No tension adjustment or lubrication, and no
sticking after riding in muck. You have to charge it now and
then -- and you can get fussy with programming (on bike, no
computer necessary for certain settings). Electronic shifting
is not an imperative, and it's expensive, but its a
reasonable choice.

Well, sure, everything is a reasonable choice for someone in some situations.

But "no tension adjustment or lubrication"? I can't remember the last time I
did a so-called tension adjustment on anything but the folding bike; and for
whatever reason, that one seemed to settle down early this year. I think all
my shift cables are lined with plastic, but for whatever reason, I don't ever
seem to have to lubricate them. Well, except for where they pass through that
open plastic channel under the bottom bracket of one bike, and that's only
very rarely. Other lubrication? A Di2 derailleur still has mechanical pivoting
joints, doesn't it?

It's OK if someone wants to buy e-shifting. And given basic
early adopter psychology, plus normal pride of ownership, it's
a given that most who spend
many hundreds of dollars for its tiny benefits will say it's worth it.

But it seems obvious that 99.9999% of the world's cyclists - and even cycling
enthusiasts - get along just fine with mechanical systems. This choice proves
that, at best, bike technology is now way, way deep into diminishing returns.

And I really do think there's an important difference between "simple to use
because of incredible complexity built into a tiny box" and just plain "simple."
That difference shows up when something goes wrong.

- Frank Krygowski

Ah, but Frank. You apparently understand, It is NEW! (and therefore
obviously better :-)

And USians apparently have an almost unlimited amount of disposable
income - I read the other day that "shopping", i.e., going to the
Mall, is now considered a form of entertainment.

And, of course, one has to "keep up with the Jones" and one way to do
it is to have a more expensive bicycle. (we have at least one bloke
here who drops the casual mention of his $4,000 bike into the
conversation at frequent intervals).

What could be more up-market than electrical shifting. It is NEW, it
is EXPENSIVE, I got it and you don't. What better reasons could
possible be imagined for owning something?
--
cheers,

John B.

Once it's totally perfected, widespread and trickled-down to
mid-range groupsets; I can see electronic shifting getting
popular with touring bicyclists. There would be no problems with
cables. I have bicycles with downtube shifters and I have
bicycles with downtube shifters AND tubular tires. MY road
touring bicycle has Campagnolo 9-Speed Mirage Ergo levers on
it. Ratcheting front shifter lever mechanism. Why? Because I like
being able to have two hands on the handlebar when honking up a
hill or riding in strong cross winds on my loaded touring
bike. Franks and YMMV. I DO KNOW what works best for ME.

Cheers

Yes, I agree with you. When the price drops there will undoubtedly be
a lot of bicycles sold with electric shifting. And, I'm sure that as
more and more devices are developed/invented to eliminate any and all
requirement for physical activity they will be marketed... and
purchased.

And yes, I hear you... Oh! I wouldn't have to take my hands off the
handle bars. Really? Of course about the first thing that young
people do after finally learning to ride a bicycle is practice riding
"hands off".

And the great improvement of electric shifting over what exists today
seems to be that instead of flicking your first finger to shift you
now can simply press the tip of your finger on a tiny button.... and
for that you get to pay in the neighborhood of $1,500. Ohhh, such a
bargain :-)

One can only assume that the next step in eliminating any and all
requirement for physical activity will be the electric bicycle.And, of
course, it is:

https://tinyurl.com/urcmt3r
Electric bicycles are showing strong year-over-year growth in the
U.S., with dollar sales growing by 95 percent in the 12 months ending
July 2017, and unit sales up 96 percent, according to global
information company The NPD Group. A $64.9 million category today,
electric bicycle sales have nearly tripled over the last 36 months.
--
cheers,

John B.

John, sometimes it's hard to tell if you're trying to be funny or obtuse. LOL VBEG

Cynical.

Here we have a two wheel vehicle that within living memory has largely
been a toy for adolescents and the poor who either couldn't get a
drivers license or were too poor to afford a "car" which suddenly
blossom out into a $12,000 plastic thing, which the great bulk of the
modern U.S. public wouldn't take if you paid them to.
Mechanically a design that dates back to about 1850, some 170 years
ago and a relatively simple designed then, with no major design
changes from then to now.

1850? We must have read different histories. 1890 is more like it for a
modern-looking safety bicycle, something that could reasonably be used
for transportation by people of ordinary ability. Add twenty years or
so to include people of ordinary means. The bicycle is, as much as the
automobile, or the airplane, a product of the modern industrial age.
A usable safety bicycle chain could no more have been manufactured in
1850 than a moon rocket.

Well, you came closer than I did :-)

https://www.liveabout.com/bikes-an-i...history-365776
A major breakthrough came in 1885 with John Kemp Starley's the
creation of (or maybe "return to" is more accurate) a bike design that
featured a rider perched much lower between two wheels of the same
size, coupled with a sprocket and chain system that drove the bike
from the rear wheel. This was the same basic "diamond frame" design
still in use in today's bikes.

As for making chains. As Starley designed and apparently built a
bicycle using a chain it is apparent that chains suitable for use as a
drive chain were in existence and as I doubt that they suddenly
appeared out of the blue just in time for building the first modern
bicycle I would suggest that they existed prior to 1885. Perhaps as
early as 1850 :-)

In other words, you've been alive for well over half the history of the
safety bicycle.

How so?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 11/24/2019 7:08 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 19:15:29 UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/24/2019 5:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 18:03:26 UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 11:59:10 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 3:33:45 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 24 November 2019 15:14:40 UTC-5, Duane wrote:


You’re arguing with people that had the same sort of argument about
brifters.

Some people still argue that Brifters or Ergos aren't needed on ANY bicycle.

"Needed"?

I'd say brifters are needed to be competitive in a criterium race. They're
often, but not always, needed to be competitive in the final sprint of a road
race.

When else are they "needed"?

I wonder how heated the arguments would have been had the internet been around when the transition from wooden frames or from wooden wheels to metal ones or from solid rubber tires to pneumatic tires?

When pneumatic tires were introduced, it became impossible to win a race on
solid tires. The difference in rolling resistance was that dramatic. So was
the difference in comfort.

The same can be said about multiple gears. Very soon, everybody saw the advantages
and knew the benefits outweighed the detriments.

But since then, returns on technology have diminished. The benefits of most
innovations since, oh, 2000 or so are barely measurable in most situations.

- Frank Krygowski

I came across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mJ06mro5fw

Lou

So the differences between a retro bike with modern kit and a modern bike with modern kit are @25hph 8 watts, @35 kph 21 Watts, and @45 kph 25 Watts. I'm not up on the Watts measurements so must ask, just how significant are those increases?

Cheers


Sir Bradley Wiggins held 440W for an e n t i r e h o u r

None of us did or could.

Some very high (1400W, 1500W) numbers are reported for 10 or
20 second bursts but that's a different thing IMHO.


So, just how much difference do those wattage differences from the video and which numbers I posted make in real life?

Cheers


Who's life?
For Mr Wiggins, a shortage or loss of 25W for an hour during
one very particular special hour would mean you might have
never known his name.

For me, riding a few blocks to get an espresso, meh. I'm as
real as anyone, just not as powerful or efficient as some.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971