Under or over seat steering?

Harry Spatz wrote:
here are some disadvantages for USS:
snip
3. It makes the bike wider so that it might be harder to maneuver
through narrow spaces. Also, will take up more width on a roof rack
on your car.

I forgot to mention this one. I imagine filtering would be easier with
OSS than with USS, though after commuting with USS for 3 years I don't
have much of a problem filtering any more.

4. It is harder to walk the bike because you have to lean way over
to hold the handlebars to steer the bike.

That depends very much on the bike and particularly the height of the
seat. IME it is easier to push a Street Machine (USS) by the back of
the seat than to push a Speed Machine (OSS) by the handlebar.

And I've never pushed a bike where it has been necessary to hold the
handlebar in order to steer. In fact I've always found it easier to
hold onto the seat and steer the bike by leaning it.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
Why I like OE6 - http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/misc/oe6.html
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

"Danny Colyer" wrote in message
...
On my commute I have to negotiate a hairpin curve on a
grade separated crossing - on the MTB it was a no brainer, on the
'bent with USS I have to be careful.

How long have you been riding?

Um, 4 weeks, never on a 'bent before?

E

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:29:15 -0000, "Danny Colyer"
wrote:

Harry Spatz wrote:
here are some disadvantages for USS:
snip
3. It makes the bike wider so that it might be harder to maneuver
through narrow spaces. Also, will take up more width on a roof rack
on your car.

I forgot to mention this one. I imagine filtering would be easier with
OSS than with USS, though after commuting with USS for 3 years I don't
have much of a problem filtering any more.

4. It is harder to walk the bike because you have to lean way over
to hold the handlebars to steer the bike.

That depends very much on the bike and particularly the height of the
seat. IME it is easier to push a Street Machine (USS) by the back of
the seat than to push a Speed Machine (OSS) by the handlebar.

I had a go on a StreetMachine the other week for an hour or so...wow,
what a nice bike that is, felt good as soon as I tried it.

The only thing I had a bit of trouble with to begin with was the USS,
not the position [which I really liked] but the seeming 'small'
steering curve. I was getting into trouble with the handlebars
knocking against the seat and knew immediately I would not feel
comfortable with this arrangement. There's always a trade-off with
everything I guess.
But it got me thinking [something I've been runing over for some time]
as to why there are not alternatives to the USS design - specifically
in the style of 'lever action', like a fork lift truck/crane kind of
thing. I'm not sure what handling would be like, but it would sure
resolve this turning curve problem that seems to crop up with USS
sometimes. In addition, you could also have the levers a little closer
to your body, if you so desired, making you slightly more streamlined.

Does anybody know of a bike with this kind of steering, or a home
builder who uses it?

I'm in the process of attenmpting a homebuild [have been for some time
- it keeps changing...can't seem to start the blasted thing!], and
I've just come up with a idea for this type of steering, using some
wheel axles brazed into a small steel tube swivelling around a couple
of wheel cones seated in some old brass plumbing nuts!

If I ever actually do it, I'll report back :-)

cheers
Garryb

And I've never pushed a bike where it has been necessary to hold the
handlebar in order to steer. In fact I've always found it easier to
hold onto the seat and steer the bike by leaning it.

in message , paul
') wrote:

Ok, so I've been and had a play, and I want one. The bike in
question is the new machine from HPvelotecnic, the grasshopper. It's
the business Now I started this search with firm views that
recumbents should have USS, but the demo bike had above seat
steering. I still think the USS looks better, but what are the pros
and cons of each steering type?

This is of course entirely theoretic as I've not yet had the pleasure
of trying a USS. However, above seat steering means there are a lot
of nasty things to hit tender bits of your anatomy on in a shunt, and
means your arms are hung out in the breeze in a moderately
uncomfortable position. USS looks to me both more comfortable and
safer.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Does anybody know of a bike with this kind of steering, or a home
builder who uses it?

There are certainly great varieties in USS steering with TRIKES,
including back & forth (Penninger), side to side (MR, Hotmover, Catrike)
as well as the usual rotating steerers (Greenspeed, Trice). There are
also the in-between joysticks (Windcheetah and Hellbent) that while are
technially OSS, have the relaxation of USS.

On USS bikes though, the main varieties are less varied, exemplified by:

- HPVelotechnik (and Actionbent and others), with direct steering with a
bit of tiller with vertical bar end style controls

- Vision with direct steering with a huge amount of tiller with
horizontally oriented controls along the length of the bike.

- Haluzak, Longbikes, Linear, Reynolds with indirect steering using
rotation, with little or no tiller

I think tiller usually increases the problem you experienced with HPVelo
bike, so you might want to try a bike with indirect steering.

The Linear in particular largely avoids the seat interference problem by
using a "Whatton bar", basically a flat bar rather than "bull horns".


--
I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

paul wrote:

...anyone for the defence of OSS?

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&safe=off&threadm=55e4ddb9.0204180934.1f cb57c0%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26safe%3Doff%26c2coff%3D1%26q%3Dfast%2Bfreddy%2B oss%2Buss%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup% 253Dalt.rec.bicycles.recumbent.

Frobnitz wrote:

... Other than that, aero issues aside, I can't think of a problem with USS.

I used to own an USS Reynolds Wishbone RT and by far the most negative
aspect of the USS was that it did not offer any mounting location for
decent mirror placement. OSS T-bars (such as those found on many RANS
bikes) are close to ideal for mirror mounting.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

garryb59 wrote:

...
But it got me thinking [something I've been runing over for some time]
as to why there are not alternatives to the USS design - specifically
in the style of 'lever action', like a fork lift truck/crane kind of
thing. I'm not sure what handling would be like, but it would sure
resolve this turning curve problem that seems to crop up with USS
sometimes. In addition, you could also have the levers a little closer
to your body, if you so desired, making you slightly more streamlined.

Does anybody know of a bike with this kind of steering, or a home
builder who uses it?...

The long out of production Thebis trike [1] has this type of steering.
The handling is odd, but certainly much of the oddness is due to other
factors.

[1] http://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/images/thebis.jpg.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Tom Sherman wrote:

Victor Kan wrote:

...
The Linear in particular largely avoids the seat interference problem
by using a "Whatton bar", basically a flat bar rather than "bull horns".


Whatton bar steering is one of the most unnatural steering systems ever
devised, in my opinion.

After doing a google search on whatton bars, it seems I misused the term
since it seems to cover USS steering in general, regardless of the shape
of the bar.

--
I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

Harry, I appreciate your comments, but for the sake of offering a
different perspective I am responding.

I think you should go with what you are more comfortable with, but here are
some disadvantages for USS:
1. It is heavier and more complicated.

I'm not familiar with the models ya'll have been discussing, but my
Vision r40 has a direct USS setup that looks as light as the OSS
setups I'v seen.

4. It is harder to walk the bike because you have to lean way over to hold
the handlebars to steer the bike.

I quit doing that like the first day. I hold the top of the seat on
each side, and push/pull to turn. Even easier than leaning the bike,
which takes more room.

Some people think that USS is more comfortable, some don't.

I keep thinking that people who ride USS long enough to be at ease
with it generally find it more comfortable for long trips. Actually,
this has been my observation, but I wanna toss this out as a question,
see if folks agree.

GeoB