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#22
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Graham,
Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. I'm not accusing nget of doing the same thing as Ed Gin. Nget does not forge email headers. A quick look at both newsfeeds.com and usenetserver.com websites seemed to indicate that one could set up accounts with either service and obscure one's identity. I did fail to notice that nget posts from cyclingforums.com that uses usenetserver.com as its NNTP provider and stand corrected in that respect. As concerns the analysis of Ed Gin's email headers, a more thorough analysis was already done in the past. My intention was merely to specifically identify the email header forgery elements employed by Ed Gin for impersonation and the Usenet news proxy server that Ed has his account with. I thought that more than sufficient for my intended purpose. One could argue back an forth regarding the use of the term sniper, but a sniper is one who shoots at someone from a concealed place and concealment comes in various flavors. Granted, Ed's and nget's methods of concealment are entirely different in terms of form and execution. Nget does not forge email headers with the intention of impersonating someone else as Ed Gin does. It is just that when one takes pot shots at another and does so without revealing their name or real email address this is akin to shooting at another from concealed place which is the nature of what a sniper does and hence the term sniping. Now, I perfectly understand the need to conceal ones identity, if for no better reason than to minimize the amount of junk email that one can get from posting in a public forum due to email harvesting spambots. On the other hand, I also understand the frustration of those who are up front about who they really are but find themselves in the heat of a flame war with what is for all practical purposes a faceless enemy so to speak. Just so that there is no confusion, I never said nor meant that nget was anything like Ed Gin. I know few people that are and we can all be thankful for that. I hope that clears the air. Jim McNamara G. Morgan wrote: Subject: A Parting Word Newsgroup: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent = = wrote: This was in response to your question ... "You're not very good at reading headers, are you?" Read what Ed Dolan wrote below ant then go back and read the post... Right, and I asked you, "what - EMAIL - headers"? Get it now? Ed Gin's Email Impersonation Circus - analysis of the forged headers I read it. Less than brilliant analysis, but you convinced Ed Dolan. What I was actually referring to, however, was the practice of ensuring obscurity by establishing an account with a Usenet news proxy server for the purpose of annonymous sniping, which is a related in intention, but different in terms of execution from the practice header forgery. Both, however, go hand in hand to serve the coward well who prefers to remain faceless in the face of battle. The only reason I jumped in is because you seemed to accuse Nget of the same thing as Ed Gin. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Nget posts through cyclingforums.com, which uses usenetserver.com for it's NNTP provider. Just because he does not list his name and an email address does not make him a 'sniper'. I am in agreement with you on the jerk that posts from newsfeeds.com and uses other's names. -- -Graham Remove the snails to email |
#23
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Graham,
Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. I'm not accusing nget of doing the same thing as Ed Gin. Nget does not forge email headers. A quick look at both newsfeeds.com and usenetserver.com websites seemed to indicate that one could set up accounts with either service and obscure one's identity. I did fail to notice that nget posts from cyclingforums.com that uses usenetserver.com as its NNTP provider and stand corrected in that respect. As concerns the analysis of Ed Gin's email headers, a more thorough analysis was already done in the past. My intention was merely to specifically identify the email header forgery elements employed by Ed Gin for impersonation and the Usenet news proxy server that Ed has his account with. I thought that more than sufficient for my intended purpose. One could argue back an forth regarding the use of the term sniper, but a sniper is one who shoots at someone from a concealed place and concealment comes in various flavors. Granted, Ed's and nget's methods of concealment are entirely different in terms of form and execution. Nget does not forge email headers with the intention of impersonating someone else as Ed Gin does. It is just that when one takes pot shots at another and does so without revealing their name or real email address this is akin to shooting at another from concealed place which is the nature of what a sniper does and hence the term sniping. Now, I perfectly understand the need to conceal ones identity, if for no better reason than to minimize the amount of junk email that one can get from posting in a public forum due to email harvesting spambots. On the other hand, I also understand the frustration of those who are up front about who they really are but find themselves in the heat of a flame war with what is for all practical purposes a faceless enemy so to speak. Just so that there is no confusion, I never said nor meant that nget was anything like Ed Gin. I know few people that are and we can all be thankful for that. I hope that clears the air. Jim McNamara G. Morgan wrote: Subject: A Parting Word Newsgroup: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent = = wrote: This was in response to your question ... "You're not very good at reading headers, are you?" Read what Ed Dolan wrote below ant then go back and read the post... Right, and I asked you, "what - EMAIL - headers"? Get it now? Ed Gin's Email Impersonation Circus - analysis of the forged headers I read it. Less than brilliant analysis, but you convinced Ed Dolan. What I was actually referring to, however, was the practice of ensuring obscurity by establishing an account with a Usenet news proxy server for the purpose of annonymous sniping, which is a related in intention, but different in terms of execution from the practice header forgery. Both, however, go hand in had to serve the coward well who prefers to remain faceless in the face of battle. The only reason I jumped in is because you seemed to accuse Nget of the same thing as Ed Gin. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Nget posts through cyclingforums.com, which uses usenetserver.com for it's NNTP provider. Just because he does not list his name and an email address does not make him a 'sniper'. I am in agreement with you on the jerk that posts from newsfeeds.com and uses other's names. -- -Graham Remove the snails to email |
#24
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wrote in message ps.com... Graham, Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. I'm not accusing nget of doing the same thing as Ed Gin. Nget does not forge email headers. A quick look at both newsfeeds.com and usenetserver.com websites seemed to indicate that one could set up accounts with either service and obscure one's identity. I did fail to notice that nget posts from cyclingforums.com that uses usenetserver.com as its NNTP provider and stand corrected in that respect. As concerns the analysis of Ed Gin's email headers, a more thorough analysis was already done in the past. My intention was merely to specifically identify the email header forgery elements employed by Ed Gin for impersonation and the Usenet news proxy server that Ed has his account with. I thought that more than sufficient for my intended purpose. One could argue back an forth regarding the use of the term sniper, but a sniper is one who shoots at someone from a concealed place and concealment comes in various flavors. Granted, Ed's and nget's methods of concealment are entirely different in terms of form and execution. Nget does not forge email headers with the intention of impersonating someone else as Ed Gin does. It is just that when one takes pot shots at another and does so without revealing their name or real email address this is akin to shooting at another from concealed place which is the nature of what a sniper does and hence the term sniping. Now, I perfectly understand the need to conceal ones identity, if for no better reason than to minimize the amount of junk email that one can get from posting in a public forum due to email harvesting spambots. On the other hand, I also understand the frustration of those who are up front about who they really are but find themselves in the heat of a flame war with what is for all practical purposes a faceless enemy so to speak. Just so that there is no confusion, I never said nor meant that nget was anything like Ed Gin. I know few people that are and we can all be thankful for that. I hope that clears the air. Jim McNamara Excellent post Jim. I am learning more from you via your posts to this group that I have ever learned from reading manuals on Usenet. I think if I were ever to start over on Usenet I would choose a user name rather my real name, but I never suspected that such low life as Ed Gin existed. Well, live and learn I guess. Forging email headers with the intention of impersonating someone else is nothing short of criminal. I wonder when the hell this group is going to get their heads screwed on straight as to what Ed Gin is doing and what a ******* he is. However it may be that recumbent cyclists are just plain stupid and can never understand what is happening here on ARBR due to Ed Gin. Mr. Sherman of course knows what is going on but he has taken the coward's way out - lie low and maybe all of this will blow over. Anyone who equates Jim and I with this ******* Ed Gin is going to get a blast from Hell from me! Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota |
#25
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wrote in message oups.com... Readership, Ed Gin relishes exhausting his opposition ... discouraging his adversary from making further posts. When someone becomes glutted from Ed Gin's bull**** and concludes that enough is enough, adds Ed to a kill file and refrains from responding, Ed regards this as an act of surrender ... an adversary vanquished ... a victory to be celebrated. The only reason that I've not yet terminated this squabble is because I'd rather not give Ed even that small shred of satisfaction. On the other hand, it is the readership that pays the price. They are the victims here. I feel that it would be selfish of me to pursue this any longer and subject the readership to any further suffering. One thing that I learned from past skirmishes with Ed is that responding to him only serves to encourage him. He feeds off of responses much like a parasite feeds off of a host organism. Someone has to be the bigger person if this is to end. It may as well be me. Unfortunately, the readership will not entirely be spared, as Ed will undoubtedly select another victim. This is the nature of a parasite, in this case an ungoverned, unscrupulous, slimy, bottom feeding troll ... an oozing festering, canker on the hide of Internet forums. I suspect that there are those that consider Ed Gin, Ed Dolan and myself to be whackos. I suspect that there are those who respect me for taking Ed Gin on. I suspect that there are also those who will respect me for calling it quits. Unlike Ed, I've better things to do with my time, so he's all yours folks. I'm out of here. Gee, Ed ... I miss you already ... N O T !!! Jim McNamara Screw it Jim! Let us take down the newsgroup since no one else here gives a damn. Hey, if Mr. Sherman who has been posting here for 5 years does not care, why should any of the rest of us. Screw ARBR all the way to hell and back. Unless and until I see some others here besides you and me intent on defending this group, then let it die and good riddance. ARBR does not deserve to exist if it is so gutless that it will not defend itself against a criminal troll like Ed Gin. Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota |
#26
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G. Morgan Wrote: Subject: A Parting Word Newsgroup: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent = Edward Dolan = wrote: Graham, examine the header of any of the posts by Ed Gin under his many sock puppets. snip I'm well aware of how to read USENET headers. I'm asking Columbo (Jim) what EMAIL headers. He accuses Nget of posting anonymously, but how is his style any better? Would Columbo be satisfied if Nget were to post a email address from a free service like Yahoo or Gmail too? I can tell exactly what city and state Nget is posting from and his ISP, hardly anonymous or trying to cover up his tracks as Jim claims. I have my newsreader set to display full headers above each message. When dealing with a scumbag like Robert L. Bass in another newsgroup, one has to be sharp. Here Nget, (and anyone else) have a Gmail account so no one can accuse you of hiding. http://s92464059.onlinehome.us/gmail/ -- -Graham Remove the snails to email Now that you know where I live why not stop by for a beer sometime?When you get in the area just ask anyone where the guy lives who rides the funny bikes. You can test ride my trike.Btw did anybody notice the front door to this place is wide open.Anyone can just come right in the house and **** on the floor if they want to.But its all about freedom of speech right? -- nget |
#27
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"nget" wrote in message ... [...] Btw did anybody notice the front door to this place is wide open.Anyone can just come right in the house and **** on the floor if they want to.But its all about freedom of speech right? -- nget Right you are Nget. That is what Ed Gin does every time he posts to this group, but with him it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has to do with abuse of free speech. He is nothing but a criminal and he ****s on this group every time he posts. Care to find me a single post of his which is otherwise? Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota |
#28
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Edward Dolan Wrote: "nget" wrote in message ... [...] Btw did anybody notice the front door to this place is wide open.Anyone can just come right in the house and **** on the floor if they want to.But its all about freedom of speech right? -- nget Right you are Nget. That is what Ed Gin does every time he posts to this group, but with him it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has to do with abuse of free speech. He is nothing but a criminal and he ****s on this group every time he posts. Care to find me a single post of his which is otherwise? Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota I was not really referring to Gins freedom of speech,but rather yours and mine.There has always been a price to pay for those who cherish freedom.I know at this time there are those who are willing to pay a much higher price than you and I were asked.Suck it up baby. -- nget |
#29
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Ed,
Taking down the newsgroup would be a daunting and an implausible task and it wouldn't be in anyone's best interest. When not monopolized by a troll like Ed Gin, the newsgroup serves a worthwhile purpose. Now, purging it of a troll like Ed Gin is entirely another matter. That's an objective worth pursuing and achieving. The unfortunate thing though, as you now realize, with the vociferous exchange of rhetoric required, you and I have been mistaken for trolls ourselves, but that is the risk one faces when engaging a troll. The readership understandably gets upset with both sides of the opposition when a flame war erupts and the newsgroup degenerates into an arena for a ****ing match. This very scenario is played out on a daily basis in most of the newsgroups in cyberspace. It is part and parcel of the design, meaning an unmoderated public forum with a multitude of participants with differing opinions who inevitably butt heads. As naturally happens, more members enter into the ongoing battle and things are totally up for grabs as toes are stepped on and alliances are forged. This very thing happened between nget and me. In the heat of battle, we misunderstood each other intentions, over-reacted, sniped at one another and buy the time I tried to unravel things and make peace with the guy; he was hearing none of it. I had hoped that there would be no hard feelings. I have nothing against him, but apparently he just doesn't feel the same ... a shame really, but there isn't anything I can do about it. I posted this before in another form, but for the benefit of the readership, here is my take on forums. I think you will find it to be a fairly accurate description of a process of evolution that I like to refer to as ... an insight into the life and phases of a mailing list ... A Perspective: Like it or not, mailing lists commonly undergo an evolutionary process regardless of whether they are moderated forums forums or unmoderated newsgroups. The natural life cycle of a mailing list, with its various phases, might be summed best as follows: 1. Declaration of Enthusiasm ... Subscribers introduce themselves and gush over how wonderful it is to have encountered kindred spirits. 2. Birth of Evangelism ... Participants moan about how the mailing list consists of far too few members and brainstorming ensues to initiate recruitment strategies. 3. Expansion of Community ... An ever increasing number of interested parties subscribe and contribute to the mailing list. Lengthy threads develop (some more relevant than others). 4. Emergence of Camaraderie ... Information and advice is exchanged (some empirically founded ... some just anecdotal nonsense). Friendships are forged. Members rib one another, but all in good fun. New subscribers are welcomed and veterans are patient with newbies. Both newcomers and old-timers alike are comfortable asking questions, providing answers, and sharing experiences. 5. Ascent of Disenchantment ... The volume of postings increases dramatically. Not all threads are of interest to all participants. Some participants pitch a bitch about signal-to-noise ratio, off-topic threads, me too posts, forwarding of private emails, and other violations of mailing list netiquette. Member #1 threatens to unsubscribe if things don't change for the better. Member #2 aligns himself with Member #1. Member #3 disagrees with both Members #1 and #2. Member #4 suggests that Members #1, #2, and #3 should lighten up. Flame wars erupt and adversaries emerge. Bandwidth is sacrificed as an abundance of postings proliferate in an effort to resolve differences and restore some semblance of order. During this particular phase, many a delete key gets more than its share of abuse. 6. Stagnancy of Growth ... The purists castigate members who ask an old question or respond humorously to a serious post. Newcomers are rebuffed and discouraged. Traffic volume subsides considerably and is generally confined to minor topics. Many relevant issues are communicated via private emails. Some members turn in their membership cards in a huff and the remaining members continue to participate in phases #4 and/or #5 above. 7. Someone like me pounds away at the keyboard composing a posting such as this one in an effort to stir the juices of those members who find themselves entrenched in the quagmire of phase #4 and/or #5 above ;-) Well, at least this posting should prove to be a thought provoking departure from the norm and hopefully sheds some light on the nature of the beast we have come to love and hate ... the mailing list. Jim McNamara P.S. I will likely mak this a seaprate (new topic) post as wel |
#30
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"nget" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan Wrote: "nget" wrote in message ... [...] Btw did anybody notice the front door to this place is wide open.Anyone can just come right in the house and **** on the floor if they want to.But its all about freedom of speech right? -- nget Right you are Nget. That is what Ed Gin does every time he posts to this group, but with him it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has to do with abuse of free speech. He is nothing but a criminal and he ****s on this group every time he posts. Care to find me a single post of his which is otherwise? Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota I was not really referring to Gins freedom of speech,but rather yours and mine.There has always been a price to pay for those who cherish freedom.I know at this time there are those who are willing to pay a much higher price than you and I were asked.Suck it up baby. The fact remains that Ed Gin is a scoundrel and no one has ever done what he has done on ARBR. Not everything should be sucked up. Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota |
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