Lance Armstrong: The Comeback A look at the first 12 months of LanceArmstrong's return to professional cycling

Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Feb 7, 10:21 am, Bob Schwartz

Virenque launched multi-pass attacks too. Lots of guts but
no class. I would say there is no correlation between class
and riding style.


dumbass,

what's your definition of class ?

i would say someone who is professional in all aspects is classy: ie.
not showing up at the start of the season out of shape, having wildly
fluctuating form, not engaging in feuds with other riders or
journalists or being the center of a lot of off-bike drama.

Virenque failed on the last point, the off-bike drama.

Bob Schwartz

On Feb 6, 9:43*pm, " wrote:
On Jan 30, 5:40*pm, bar wrote:



On Jan 30, 8:32*pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:

"bar" wrote in message

....

i largely agree with the spirit of your comments above. *I'm all for
more civilized discourse about racing.

Then please practice it from now on.

I will try, bro.

however, it's one thing to have discussoins with folks who really
follow racing and folks who just follow LANCE and think he's awesome
and never really look at the wider context. *i'm tired of dealing with
folks who think LANCE = cycling, and in this instance my emotions got
the better of me.

I wonder how old you are since we saw the same sort of thing with Laurent
Fignon, Greg LeMond, Pedro Delgato and of course Miguel Indurain.

I'm older than the wind, Tom. *And I don't recall the same kind of
mindless fanboyism with any of these other cats that we see with
LANCE.

In addition, I think Indurain was 100 times classier than LANCE can
ever hope to be. *Delgado was a doper, and LeMond has largely made a
farce of his legacy in cycling with his more recent bull**** (although
I do appreciate his accomplishments and enjoy watching those old tapes
-- he's largely the reason i got into cycling way back when in the
first place).

Fignon? *I really hope he recovers and live a long(er) life.

-b-

Aside from the riding accomplishments there is big differences between
Lance and *Indurain in terms of class. Lance was willing to take
chances and was willing to attack off the front. Indurain almost
always rode defensively. It takes a guts and class for a rider to
attack when there several mountain passes to go and then win.

My only big complaint with Lance is that he is to self centered and
get's testy sometimes.

Not half as much as he used to.
--D-y

In article ,
--D-y wrote:

On Feb 6, 9:43*pm, " wrote:

My only big complaint with Lance is that he is to self centered and
get's testy sometimes.

Not half as much as he used to.

Hey, he'll be here all week! Try the veal! Tip your waiters!

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message
...
Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Feb 7, 10:21 am, Bob Schwartz

Virenque launched multi-pass attacks too. Lots of guts but
no class. I would say there is no correlation between class
and riding style.


dumbass,

what's your definition of class ?

i would say someone who is professional in all aspects is classy: ie.
not showing up at the start of the season out of shape, having wildly
fluctuating form, not engaging in feuds with other riders or
journalists or being the center of a lot of off-bike drama.

Virenque failed on the last point, the off-bike drama.




Dumbass -

He failed at on-bike drama too.

Dude wasn't very popular. Remember when they dropped Ullrich on the descent
(1997 I believe)? They had a group of 20 and could have taken the yellow
jersey right off Ullrich's shoulders, but the others wouldn't work for
Virenque unless he paid them.

Dude was such a dickhead that he refused even though the asking price wasn't
that much. If he would've been well-liked (and Ullrich disliked), they
would've probably started a rotating paceline for free. It's not that much
effort to take part in a rotating paceline when there's 20 riders.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

"Amit Ghosh" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:43 pm, " wrote:

on the bike both indurain and armstrong almost never made mistakes,
but indurain is such a wallflower / generally acknowledged nice guy
that even though indurain was a likely doper no one is interested in
scrutinizing him whereas there was a lot of talk about his
contemporaries (riis, rominger, berzin).




Dumbass -

Agreed.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

On Feb 7, 8:21 am, Bob Schwartz
wrote:

Virenque launched multi-pass attacks too. Lots of guts but
no class. ..


Riding off in an attempt to win all the climbing points in the TDF is
not a sign of guts or class imo, although it could be a smart career
move. The polka-dots looked suitably clownish on Jalabert and
Virenque.

RobertH wrote:

Riding off in an attempt to win all the climbing points in the TDF is
not a sign of guts or class imo, although it could be a smart career
move. The polka-dots looked suitably clownish on Jalabert and
Virenque.


Just speaking for myself, I don't really have a problem with Jalabert
taking the "clown" award at the end of his career, considering all he
had done before. I'm glad he went for the jersey, just out of my own
personal selfishness, as I wasn't really paying attention to cycling any
earlier, and it gave me a chance to see him before he was gone. I can
understand that you don't think it's "classy", but I never thought he
looked clownish.
heather
Laurent Jalabert
1992 Points Competition, Tour de France
1 stage, Tour de France
1993 2 stages, Vuelta a España
1994 Points Competition, Vuelta a España
7 stages, Vuelta a España
1995 Vuelta a España
KoM, Vuelta a España
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
5 stages, Vuelta a España
Milan - San Remo
Flèche Wallone
Paris - Nice
Tour of Catalonia
Criterium International
Points Competition, Tour de France
1 stage, Tour de France
1996 Paris - Nice
GP du Midi Libre
Classique des Alpes
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
2 stages, Vuelta a España
1997 Tour of Lombardy
Flèche Wallone
Milan - Turin
Paris - Nice
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
2 stages, Vuelta a España
World Time Trial Championship
1998 Classique des Alpes
3 stages, Tour of Switzerland
1999 Catalan Week
Tour of the Basque Country
Tour of Romandy
Points Competition, Giro d'Italia
3 stages, Giro d'Italia
Points competition, Tour of Switzerland
1 stage, Tour of Switzerland
2000 Catalan Week
2001 KoM, Tour de France
2 stages, Tour de France
Clasica San Sebastian

On Feb 7, 2:58 pm, heather wrote:
RobertH wrote:
Riding off in an attempt to win all the climbing points in the TDF is
not a sign of guts or class imo, although it could be a smart career
move. The polka-dots looked suitably clownish on Jalabert and
Virenque.

Just speaking for myself, I don't really have a problem with Jalabert
taking the "clown" award at the end of his career, considering all he
had done before. I'm glad he went for the jersey, just out of my own
personal selfishness, as I wasn't really paying attention to cycling any
earlier, and it gave me a chance to see him before he was gone. I can
understand that you don't think it's "classy", but I never thought he
looked clownish.
heather
Laurent Jalabert
1992 Points Competition, Tour de France
1 stage, Tour de France
1993 2 stages, Vuelta a España
1994 Points Competition, Vuelta a España
7 stages, Vuelta a España
1995 Vuelta a España
KoM, Vuelta a España
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
5 stages, Vuelta a España
Milan - San Remo
Flèche Wallone
Paris - Nice
Tour of Catalonia
Criterium International
Points Competition, Tour de France
1 stage, Tour de France
1996 Paris - Nice
GP du Midi Libre
Classique des Alpes
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
2 stages, Vuelta a España
1997 Tour of Lombardy
Flèche Wallone
Milan - Turin
Paris - Nice
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
2 stages, Vuelta a España
World Time Trial Championship
1998 Classique des Alpes
3 stages, Tour of Switzerland
1999 Catalan Week
Tour of the Basque Country
Tour of Romandy
Points Competition, Giro d'Italia
3 stages, Giro d'Italia
Points competition, Tour of Switzerland
1 stage, Tour of Switzerland
2000 Catalan Week
2001 KoM, Tour de France
2 stages, Tour de France
Clasica San Sebastian


I appreciate that point of view. Personally I had watched Jalabert
through his career and he was always one of my favorite riders. When
he went for the polka-dot instead of racing straight-up I was
disappointed.

"RobertH" wrote in message
...

I appreciate that point of view. Personally I had watched Jalabert
through his career and he was always one of my favorite riders. When
he went for the polka-dot instead of racing straight-up I was
disappointed.



Dumbass -

Earlier in Jalabert's career, he raced for the green jersey in the TdF.

What's the difference? IMO, not much from an aesthetic point of view - both
the mountains jersey and the green jersey are built upon points constructs
sprinkled throughout the race.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

On Feb 7, 9:23*am, Amit Ghosh wrote:
On Feb 6, 10:43*pm, " wrote:

Aside from the riding accomplishments there is big differences between
Lance and *Indurain in terms of class. Lance was willing to take
chances and was willing to attack off the front. Indurain almost
always rode defensively. It takes a guts and class for a rider to
attack when there several mountain passes to go and then win.

dumbass,

on the bike both indurain and armstrong almost never made mistakes,
but indurain is such a wallflower / generally acknowledged nice guy
that even though indurain was a likely doper no one is interested in
scrutinizing him whereas there was a lot of talk about his
contemporaries (riis, rominger, berzin).
Oh please let's get off this guilt by insinuation /association
conspiracy. If there is evidence then show it. I get so tired of
people making accusations and then unwilling produce any evidence.