Gone to Dresden

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/index.php?o...=84&Itemi d=1

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

--
Davey Crockett

In article ,
Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?

--
Michael Press

On Feb 13, 2:09*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?

--
Michael Press

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary

In article
,
Ben Trovato wrote:

On Feb 13, 2:09Â*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Â*Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary

Thank you ever so much.

--
Michael Press

On Feb 13, 4:29*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
*Ben Trovato wrote:

On Feb 13, 2:09*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary

Thank you ever so much.

--
Michael Press

I'm sure it wasn't much of a surprise...

In article
,
Ben Trovato wrote:

On Feb 13, 4:29Â*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Â*Ben Trovato wrote:

On Feb 13, 2:09Â*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Â*Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary

Thank you ever so much.

I'm sure it wasn't much of a surprise...

Surprise? I still do not know anything.
Do you think that visited the site?

--
Michael Press

In article ,
Michael Press wrote:

In article
,
Ben Trovato wrote:

On Feb 13, 2:09Â*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Â*Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it

The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...

Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook

Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary

Thank you ever so much.

So as I understand the protests, the neo-Nazis were memorializing the
bombing of Dresden.

Were the counter-protestors chanting "we deserved it!"?

More interestingly, that article says that estimates of the Dresden
firebombing deaths have lately been revised downward drastically: 25,000.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
Michael Press wrote:

In article
,
Ben Trovato wrote:

On Feb 13, 2:09Â pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
 Davey Crockett wrote:

See you there anyone who can make it
The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...
Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook
Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary
Thank you ever so much.

So as I understand the protests, the neo-Nazis were memorializing the
bombing of Dresden.

Were the counter-protestors chanting "we deserved it!"?

Which side was Davey on?

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
So as I understand the protests, the neo-Nazis were memorializing the
bombing of Dresden.

Were the counter-protestors chanting "we deserved it!"?

Dummer Junge,

No. The Neonazis are hijacking Dresden's deaths to excuse Nazi crimes.
"That was bad so we were good." Counter-protesters are trying to
separate the issues.

Ryan Cousineau a écrit profondement:

| In article ,
| Michael Press wrote:
|
| In article
| ,
| Ben Trovato wrote:
|
| On Feb 13, 2:09ÂÂ*pm, Michael Press wrote:
| In article ,
| ÂÂ*Davey Crockett wrote:
|
| See you there anyone who can make it
|
| The meeting point is Schlesischer Platz (Bahnhof Dresden Neustadt) in
| Dresden, 12 (noon) on February 13. More info (in German) he
| http://www.jlosachsen.de/in...
|
| Bring your helmets - it looks like it's gonna be a Donneybrook
|
| Suppose you tell us what it is about before we visit the site?
|
| http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_german...en_anniversary
|
| Thank you ever so much.
|
| So as I understand the protests, the neo-Nazis were memorializing the
| bombing of Dresden.
|
| Were the counter-protestors chanting "we deserved it!"?
|
| More interestingly, that article says that estimates of the Dresden
| firebombing deaths have lately been revised downward drastically:
| 25,000.

The more information you dig up about the Allied firestorm bombing of
Dresden, the more obvious an atrocity it is. By February 1945, Germany
was only a few weeks away from total defeat. Dresden produced mainly
soap, china and cameras. It’s value as a military target was dismissed
by Allied strategists. One source reported “January 25 was the day when
the decision was taken that resulted in the blotting out of
Dresden. Until then, the capital of Saxony (Dresden) had been considered
so famous a cultural monument and so futile a military target that even
the Commander in Chief of Bombing Command, Air Marshal Sir Arthur
Harris, had given it hardly a thought…�

What Dresden did have was people. Hundreds of thousands of German
refugees fleeing the Red Army had stopped in Dresden. Soviet soldiers
were raping virtually all German women over the age of 10 (in another
Allied atrocity). Winston Churchill wanted to strike at the German
people one last time, mass murdering as many civilians as possible
before the war ended.

One British pilot reported “On 13th February 1945 I was a navigator on
one of the Lancaster bombers which devastated Dresden. I well remember
the briefing by our Group Captain. We were told that the Red Army was
thrusting towards Dresden and that the town would be crowded with
refugees and that the center of the town would be full of women and
children. Our aiming point would be the market place. I recall that we
were somewhat uneasy, but we did as we were told… The penny didn’t drop
until a few weeks later when my squadron received a visit from the Crown
Film Unit who were making the wartime propaganda films. There was a mock
briefing, with one notable difference. The same Group Captain now said,
‘as the market place would be filled with women and children on no
account would we bomb the center of the town. Instead, our aiming point
would be a vital railway junction to the east. I can categorically
confirm that the Dresden raid was a black mark on Britain’s war
record. The aircrews on my squadron were convinced that this wicked act
was not instigated by our much-respected guvnor ‘Butch’ Harris but by
Churchill. I have waited 29 years to say this, and it still worries me.�

The Allies discovered that if they dropped massive quantities of
incendiaries on a city that a firestorm results. Temperatures in the
middle of the firestorm can exceed 1,000 degrees and hurricane force
wind draws anything loose (including people) into the fire. When this
sort of attack was carried out on Hamburg, thousands of German civilians
in air raid shelters were suffocated or cooked alive. The British knew
what had happened during the firestorm at Hamburg. They deliberately
chose to carry out this sort of attack on a city full of refugees with
little if any military value only weeks before the war would end. What
kind of a monster would do this to hundreds of thousands of civilians in
the closing weeks of a war?

The German authorities and rescue workers counted and tagged 250,000
bodies at Dresden a few weeks after the bombing according to a report
received and noted by Joseph Goebbels in his 1945 diary (“Final
Entries�). This is the minimum number of dead. Who knows how many bodies
could not be recovered in the few weeks before the Red Army overran the
remains of the city? Many bodies were hopelessly buried under
rubble. The extreme temperatures of a firestorm may have incinerated
many victims near the center of the city. Allied historians have claimed
a death toll at Dresden many times less, but they never explain how they
arrived at their much-reduced estimates. Did they rely on observation
plane photos from 30,000 feet? Did they come up with a figure of 35,000
dead because 250,000 dead would make them obvious war criminals? The
German authorities were doing their best to retrieve the dead from the
rubble during the last chaotic weeks of the war. The Germans were known
to keep bureaucratic records of almost everything –even under the worst
conditions. Once the Soviets overran Dresden, the truth of the death
toll was unlikely to be revealed. The German records of this Allied
atrocity were almost certainly hidden or destroyed by the Soviets.

One source suggests that the number of dead may be as high as
500,000. That article reports “On the evening of February 13, 1945, an
orgy of genocide and barbarism began against a defenseless German city,
one of the greatest cultural centers of northern Europe. Within less
than 14 hours not only was it reduced to flaming ruins, but an estimated
one-third of its inhabitants, possibly as many as a half a million, had
perished in what was the worst single event massacre of all time..known
as the Florence of the North. Dresden was a hospital city for wounded
soldiers. Not one military unit, not one anti-aircraft battery was
deployed in the city. Together with the 600.000 refugees from Breslau,
Dresden was filled with nearly 1.2 million people. Churchill had asked
for “suggestions how to blaze 600.000 refugees�. He wasn’t interested
how to target military installations 60 miles outside of Dresden. More
than 700.000 phosphorus bombs were dropped on 1.2 million people. One
bomb for every 2 people. The temperature in the centre of the city
reached 1600 degrees centigrade. More than 260.000 bodies and residues
of bodies were counted. But those who perished in the centre of the city
can’t be traced. Approximately 500.000 children, women, the elderly,
wounded soldiers and the animals of the zoo were slaughtered in one
night.�

The American writer, Kurt Vonnegut, who was a POW near Dresden, remarked
“You guys burnt the place down, turned it into a single column of
flame. More people died there in the firestorm, in that one big flame,
than died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.�

http://daveycrockett.free.fr/Dresden.rm

--
Davey Crockett