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#1
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute.
I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers |
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#2
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On 09/26/2012 11:23 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers Sounds spot on and very familiar to me. |
#3
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers I think a lot of the upgrade benefit depends on what you're upgrading from, and what you're upgrading to. And, since this discussion group is labeled "tech," I'll mention that a lot of the benefits are reasonably quantifiable. IOW, we can work out reasonably accurately how much extra acceleration you'd really get, how much more speed for the same effort you'd get, how much faster your commute would be, etc. The physics of the bike have been worked out for at least 100 years; it's not rocket science. Websites like Damon Rinard's (who is a respected professional in the bike industry) make many of those calculations pretty easy and automatic. And although it can be fun to ride a bike that feels snappier, it's hard to pretend that the performance gains really amount to anything practical, at least for a typical commute. In my case, I used to routinely treat my ride home from work as a time trial - at least, if I caught the downtown traffic lights green. (If I caught them red, I'd relax and ride more slowly.) By recording my times, I proved to my satisfaction that using my lighter bike made me faster. That was no surprise, because the ride home is mostly a climb out of the valley. But over the years, I did the ride with different tires (admittedly, all clinchers), with and without fenders, with a standard vs. aero water bottle, with ordinary or bladed spokes in the front wheel, with and without a custom-built aero handlebar bag, with and without a rear wheel disc cover for the spokes. What I concluded was that the difference from any of those elements was negligible for any practical purposes. Perhaps it might reduce my 27 minute ride to a 26 minute ride - which would be big news in a real time trial - but it made no difference in my everyday life. In real life, just one extra red light out in the suburbs, or two extra cars at a four-way stop sign, would make the difference undetectable; and when I got home, nothing I would do with the extra minute would make it really worthwhile. Ultimately, I stopped the practice of putting fenders on and taking them off depending on the forecast. I had them set up so I could do it in about three minutes, but riding without them wouldn't save me three minutes anyway. I ditched the rear spoke covers (probably the most effective speed increaser) because it made it that much more of a hassle to inflate the tires or fix a flat, and I literally couldn't feel the difference anyway. In fact, when I was finally able to afford two road bikes and thus devote one entirely to commuting/utility work, that bike became much more pleasant to use for such work. I preferred the handiness of always having fenders, lights, bags, racks, bungees, lock, mirror etc. etc. on board and ready to go. The only adjustments I have to make are to fasten on the front mudflap if the roads are wet, and hang the shopping panniers if I'll be lugging something big, like the groceries. I know there are people who have fun commuting on performance-oriented road bikes. That's fine, if that's what they enjoy. However, I doubt that many of them gain significant time from, say, riding a carbon fiber Dura-Ace bike with aero wheels, compared to riding, say, a Long Haul Trucker with fenders, a rack, a handlebar bag and decent road tires. And groceries? My guess is they always use the car. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#4
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On Sep 26, 10:56*am, Frank Krygowski
wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as *was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers I think a lot of the upgrade benefit depends ... [crap snipped ]- - Frank Krygowski Man! We could save a lot of bandwidth by just cutting out all the crap, especially the opinion that Frank attempts to interject as somehow being relevant or technical. The OP stated it clearly and succinctly. "Different bikes and or wheels for different folks." Frank you added NOTHING! DR |
#5
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On 09/26/2012 01:29 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:56 am, Frank Krygowski wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers I think a lot of the upgrade benefit depends ... [crap snipped ]- - Frank Krygowski Man! We could save a lot of bandwidth by just cutting out all the crap, especially the opinion that Frank attempts to interject as somehow being relevant or technical. The OP stated it clearly and succinctly. "Different bikes and or wheels for different folks." Frank you added NOTHING! See, if someone would always do that, then I wouldn't have to see all the crap. DR, you looking for a job? At least until I get the time to write some software to purge the quoted text from kill-filed posters... |
#6
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:56:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers I think a lot of the upgrade benefit depends on what you're upgrading from, and what you're upgrading to. And, since this discussion group is labeled "tech," I'll mention that a lot of the benefits are reasonably quantifiable. IOW, we can work out reasonably accurately how much extra acceleration you'd really get, how much more speed for the same effort you'd get, how much faster your commute would be, etc. The physics of the bike have been worked out for at least 100 years; it's not rocket science. Websites like Damon Rinard's (who is a respected professional in the bike industry) make many of those calculations pretty easy and automatic. And although it can be fun to ride a bike that feels snappier, it's hard to pretend that the performance gains really amount to anything practical, at least for a typical commute. Snipped I know there are people who have fun commuting on performance-oriented road bikes. That's fine, if that's what they enjoy. However, I doubt that many of them gain significant time from, say, riding a carbon fiber Dura-Ace bike with aero wheels, compared to riding, say, a Long Haul Trucker with fenders, a rack, a handlebar bag and decent road tires. And groceries? My guess is they always use the car. -- - Frank Krygowski Crikey! I find it astounding that a person can think that a Dua Ace groupset Carbon Fibre frame bicycle will be comparable to a Surly Long Haul Trucker in performance and trip time and ease on a commuting distance of over 15 miles and especially in distances of 30 miles or more. The difference in the effort required to pedal a LHT compared to the effort to pedal a high-end groupset on a carbon frame (or even a Columbus SL frame) is quit noticeable. Compared to my 1985 vintage MIELE Sport-Touring bicycle my 1985 vintage MIELE Columbus SL bike *IS* both much faster and much easier to pedal. The SL flies along the flats and climbs like a homesick angel compared to the ST bike. Grocery shopping? In my case I use my Sport-Touring bike with 56 litres capacity rear panniers and smaller front ones for a major shopping trip. It also has a handlebar bag for small delicate items. My SL bike is my version of a sports car and my Sport-Touring bike is my version of a heavy duty pickup truck. I'll say it again - Different strokes for different folks. A rhetorical question that I asked myself after reading the reply: If a LHT is as efficient as a carbon fibre frame bike with a quality road groupset on it, I wonder why we don't see any LHTers in the pro races? Cheers |
#7
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
fail seeing urpoint...
marketplace dictates weights for frame type. beyond that, its urmoney urtime. outside of the climbers, uh what's that french word for long mileage maniacs ?, robilard ? more $$$ less weight less durability more maint is analanalanalagous to speeding in the burbs on a 3 mile route 'like' where's the gain ? 3500 maybe faster than 2000 but if uronit who would notice after 20 miles ? |
#8
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On 09/26/2012 02:43 PM, datakoll wrote:
fail seeing urpoint... marketplace dictates weights for frame type. beyond that, its urmoney urtime. outside of the climbers, uh what's that french word for long mileage maniacs ?, robilard ? more $$$ less weight less durability more maint is analanalanalagous to speeding in the burbs on a 3 mile route 'like' where's the gain ? My French is not so bad but I don't know the word except that it's the name of a run with some nice rollers not far from he http://ridewithgps.com/segments/Mont...-Joseph-du-Lac 3500 maybe faster than 2000 but if uronit who would notice after 20 miles ? don't get your point but wouldn't want to ride those rollers on a paper boy bike. YMMV |
#9
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On Sep 26, 12:38*pm, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:56:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as *was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers I think a lot of the upgrade benefit depends on what you're upgrading from, and what you're upgrading to. *And, since this discussion group is labeled "tech," I'll mention that a lot of the benefits are reasonably quantifiable. *IOW, we can work out reasonably accurately how much extra acceleration you'd really get, how much more speed for the same effort you'd get, how much faster your commute would be, etc. *The physics of the bike have been worked out for at least 100 years; it's not rocket science. *Websites like Damon Rinard's (who is a respected professional in the bike industry) make many of those calculations pretty easy and automatic. And although it can be fun to ride a bike that feels snappier, it's hard to pretend that the performance gains really amount to anything practical, at least for a typical commute. Snipped I know there are people who have fun commuting on performance-oriented road bikes. *That's fine, if that's what they enjoy. *However, I doubt that many of them gain significant time from, say, riding a carbon fiber Dura-Ace bike with aero wheels, compared to riding, say, a Long Haul Trucker with fenders, a rack, a handlebar bag and decent road tires. And groceries? *My guess is they always use the car. -- - Frank Krygowski Crikey! I find it astounding that a person can think that a Dua Ace groupset Carbon Fibre frame bicycle will be comparable to a Surly Long Haul Trucker in performance and trip time and ease on a commuting distance of over 15 miles and especially in distances of 30 miles or more. The difference in the effort required to pedal a LHT compared to the effort to pedal a high-end groupset on a carbon frame (or even a Columbus SL frame) is quit noticeable. Compared to my 1985 vintage MIELE Sport-Touring bicycle my 1985 vintage MIELE Columbus SL bike *IS* both much faster and much easier to pedal. The SL flies along the flats and climbs like a homesick angel compared to the ST bike. Grocery shopping? In my case I use my Sport-Touring bike with 56 litres capacity rear panniers and smaller front ones for a major shopping trip. It also has a handlebar bag for small delicate items. My SL bike is my version of a sports car and my Sport-Touring bike is my version of a heavy duty pickup truck. I'll say it again - Different strokes *for different folks. A rhetorical question that I asked myself after reading the reply: If a LHT is as efficient as a carbon fibre frame bike with a quality road groupset on it, I wonder why we don't see any LHTers in the pro races? Cheers I have previously posed to Frank the query that, since he thinks he is so knowledgeable, how would he outfit a pro race team? Of course he never answers. He just goes off on another rant somewhere else about things like how his Lyotard mod 23's being the best pedals ever made. I don't get the impression he has ever developed any appreciation and/ or enjoyment for the physical sensation of riding a bike and that some bikes can actually enhance that, aside from any objective measurement of something like speed. DR |
#10
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Upgraded Wheels Benefits
On Sep 26, 8:23*am, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I remembr many years ago when I bought my Columbus SL frame bike with Dura Ace groupset and tubular tires. That bike made my commute aceoss Toronto, Ontario, Canada much more enjoyable. Acceleration from a stop was much better as *was the ease of climbing hills. Acceleration around dawdling bicyclists was also much easier. I figure that better/lighter wheels allows one to reach the same speed and to maintqin that speed with considerable less effort. Another way of looking at is that you can go faster with the same amount of effort. Either less effort to maintain a given speed or more speed for the same effort can be a real advantage to acommuting bicyclist who has a long commute. I think that there are a lot of people who commute on racing-style bicycles because they enjoy the ease of getting up to their cruising speed and the ease of maintaining that speed compared to a heavy bike. Also, a lot of people use their commute rides for training or improving the person's fitness level. When I lived in Toronto I used to do a lot of interval training on my commutes. Sprinting from one stop light to the next was great fun as was seeing just how short a time I could get my commute down to. Different bikes and or wheels for different folks. Cheers Around here, a lot of people race after work or train, so there is an excuse for bringing a racing bike to work. For me, I like to ride home through the hills, and I appreciate having a relatively light commuting bike that can equip with "racing tires" if I want to waste expensive rubber. Just a tire swap makes a huge difference. I don't often bring my racing bike to work because I don't want it to get banged up, tires worn out, swapping lights back and forth, etc, and I don't like walking in Look-type cleats. And during winter, the disc brakes on my cross bike give me much better stopping, and that bike has fenders. I also use wider rubber which gives me much better footing on wet or snowy pavement. Commuting on a racing bike doesn't make much sense around here in winter, and riding a bike with fatter rubber gives me some other options to get home -- maybe somewhat slower, but after 25 years of commuting in the same place, the minor off road sections help beat the boredom. Another reason why I wouldn't use expensive wheels is because during the fall/winter/spring, the rims would get ground down by the road grime and rain, and fussy lightweight stuff may lack reliability -- and the last thing I want to do is get stuck in the rain or snow at night dealing with a mechanical problem. Not saying that light wheels necessarily lack reliability, but there is that issue. I also don't like exposing expensive equipment to the types of hazards seen by my cross bike during the fall/winter/spring -- like riding through puddles that are over the BB or hitting pot holes in the dark. http://bikeportland.org/2011/05/31/h...ocations-53967 I don't mind getting stuck in the rain on my racing bike, but if it is raining, I take my cross bike because I don't want to go through the fuss of clean-up. -- Jay Beattie. |
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