WSJ article on Dutch helmet-resistance

Op 3-11-2010 19:47, Jay Beattie schreef:
On Nov 3, 11:22 am, Lou wrote:
Op 3-11-2010 18:10, Duane H bert schreef:





On 11/3/2010 12:52 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 3-11-2010 7:19, schreef:
"Getting These Cyclists to Use Helmets Is Like Tilting at Windmills"
"Bicycle-Loving Dutch Hate Headgear; 'We Are Not in Germany'"

"But among Holland's millions of bikers, helmets are almost
nonexistent and resistance to them is fierce. Only 0.1% of Dutch
bikers wear helmets, in contrast to 15% in nearby Sweden and 38% in
the U.S., according to the British cycling organization CTC."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57557425061616...

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Whoe, ha,ha,ha..
Dutch wearing helmets for daily use cycling? Must be a foreigner to come
up with that idea...

Lou

"The Netherlands boasts the world's highest per capita use of bicycles.
It has thousands of miles of paved bicycle paths, with traffic lights
specifically for riders. It is dotted with sheltered bike parking.
Trains have bike compartments. Bikers get priority on most roads, and
youngsters take biking tests."

Exactly, and that without wearing helmets.
Let me tell you a story.
When I was in highschool (middelbare school in Dutch), all the teenagers
between 16 and 18 years old rode mopeds (brommers in Dutch). We could
ride them without helmets up to 40 km/hr. At some moment helmets became
mandatory and guess what, within a eyeblink mopeds almost vanished
completely. When they introduced mopeds that couldn't go faster that 25
km/hr and could be rode without helmets, mopeds got popular again by
teenagers. But of course upgrade kits got available very soon....
Mandatory helmets for bicycles in the Netherlands is not gonna happen.
Period.

Lou- Hide quoted text -

I have to ask -- what did the kids who quit riding mopeds do for
transportation?

We went back to bicycles and wait until we got our drivers licence at 18
year.

Did they drive cars, ride bikes, skateboard? I don't
get the big issue with helmets -- why that would be a deal breaker for
cruising around on a moped. It's not like you're working up a sweat.

No but we went everywhere with our mopeds and we had to carry our
helmets with us. Could not leave them because they got stolen.
The girls worried about their haircuts.


I understand that some people think that riding with a helmet makes
them look like a dork, or musses their hair or makes them hot -- so
they don't ride. That's the part I don't understand. I rode a bike
with a CAM walker fracture boot on one leg or the other for over six
months. http://orthotape.com/cam_walker.asp You would have to put a
boat anchor on my head before I quit riding.

Figure a 72 year old lady that goes to a grocery store, with and without
a helmet.
Figure all the people who go by bike to the trainstation a take the
train from there to their work.
Figure all the kids who go to school by bike.We have to install lockers
for all the helmets. Thousand of them on every medium size highschool.
etc. etc.
Helmets are not practical and are unnecessary. Leave us alone please ;-)

Lou

On Nov 3, 6:19*am, wrote:
"Getting These Cyclists to Use Helmets Is Like Tilting at Windmills"
"Bicycle-Loving Dutch Hate Headgear; 'We Are Not in Germany'"

"But among Holland's millions of bikers, helmets are almost
nonexistent—and resistance to them is fierce. Only 0.1% of Dutch
bikers wear helmets, in contrast to 15% in nearby Sweden and 38% in
the U.S., according to the British cycling organization CTC."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57557425061616...

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Don't be such a provincial jerk, Carl. The cycling milieu and motorist
mindset in The Netherlands is completely different from that in
States. The Dutch don't need helmets, Americans do. Read the New York
report, and if you don't have the mental staying power, read my
idiot's summary of it made for Krygowski. I assume you can google your
way to it. -- Andre Jute

On 03/11/10 10:10 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 11/3/2010 12:52 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 3-11-2010 7:19, schreef:
"Getting These Cyclists to Use Helmets Is Like Tilting at Windmills"
"Bicycle-Loving Dutch Hate Headgear; 'We Are Not in Germany'"

"But among Holland's millions of bikers, helmets are almost
nonexistent—and resistance to them is fierce. Only 0.1% of Dutch
bikers wear helmets, in contrast to 15% in nearby Sweden and 38% in
the U.S., according to the British cycling organization CTC."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...le_Lifestyle_5



Cheers,

Carl Fogel


Whoe, ha,ha,ha..
Dutch wearing helmets for daily use cycling? Must be a foreigner to come
up with that idea...

Lou

"The Netherlands boasts the world's highest per capita use of bicycles.
It has thousands of miles of paved bicycle paths, with traffic lights
specifically for riders. It is dotted with sheltered bike parking.
Trains have bike compartments. Bikers get priority on most roads, and
youngsters take biking tests."

Exactly. That's covered in Myth 29 at
"http://sites.google.com/site/bicyclehelmetmythsandfacts/".

I think we all wish that other countries could have a cycling
environment like the Netherlands, but until then, helmets are a necessity.

John Forrester, author of Effective Cycling, writes: "The maximum safe
speed for Dutch voonerven has been given as 8 mph. Average travel speeds
on Dutch urban bikepaths are universally described as very slow,
probably below 10 mph. On the other hand, speeds of American bicycle
commuters, now easily measured with electronic speedometers, typically
are in the 16-22 mph range. Dutch cyclists tolerate their low speeds for
two reasons: travel times are not great because they travel short
distances and motoring is so inconvenient that it would probably take
longer. American cyclists would not tolerate Dutch speeds because of the
longer distances they must travel. _The facilities, traffic rules and
speed-controlling attitudes that are acceptable to one nation are
obviously unacceptable to another_" (underlining mine).

Lou Holtman writes:

Figure all the kids who go to school by bike.We have to install
lockers for all the helmets. Thousand of them on every medium size
highschool. etc. etc.

Why don't they lock their helmets to their bikes? That's what I
do with my helmet.
--
"Mon peu de succès près des femmes est toujours venu de les trop aimer."
--Jean-Jacques Rousseau

On Nov 3, 5:10*pm, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 11/3/2010 12:52 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:





Op 3-11-2010 7:19, schreef:
"Getting These Cyclists to Use Helmets Is Like Tilting at Windmills"
"Bicycle-Loving Dutch Hate Headgear; 'We Are Not in Germany'"

"But among Holland's millions of bikers, helmets are almost
nonexistent and resistance to them is fierce. Only 0.1% of Dutch
bikers wear helmets, in contrast to 15% in nearby Sweden and 38% in
the U.S., according to the British cycling organization CTC."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57557425061616....

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Whoe, ha,ha,ha..
Dutch wearing helmets for daily use cycling? Must be a foreigner to come
up with that idea...

Lou

"The Netherlands boasts the world's highest per capita use of bicycles.
It has thousands of miles of paved bicycle paths, with traffic lights
specifically for riders. It is dotted with sheltered bike parking.
Trains have bike compartments. Bikers get priority on most roads, and
youngsters take biking tests."

And a motorist who runs down a bicyclist had better have a very good
explanation. The American explanation of 'I didn't see him and a
cyclist shouldn't be on the road anyway,' will earn a stiff jail
sentence. -- Andre Jute

On Nov 3, 6:22*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:

When I was in highschool (middelbare school in Dutch), all the teenagers
between 16 and 18 years old rode mopeds (brommers in Dutch).

Heh-heeeh! With us it was small motorbikes, 50cc (probably actually
49cc) Honda and Yamaha. They sounded like farm creamery machines, so I
called them 'snot separators' because they were just fast enough if
you rode them without a helmet -- which I don't remember being
required for bikes under 50cc -- to cause streams of phlegm to fly.
The school bully offered to beat me up for the name, which he and his
gang felt detracted from their cool poses on their... snot separators!
-- Andre Jute

On Nov 3, 12:05*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 3-11-2010 19:47, Jay Beattie schreef:





On Nov 3, 11:22 am, Lou *wrote:
Op 3-11-2010 18:10, Duane H bert schreef:

On 11/3/2010 12:52 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 3-11-2010 7:19, schreef:
"Getting These Cyclists to Use Helmets Is Like Tilting at Windmills"
"Bicycle-Loving Dutch Hate Headgear; 'We Are Not in Germany'"

"But among Holland's millions of bikers, helmets are almost
nonexistent and resistance to them is fierce. Only 0.1% of Dutch
bikers wear helmets, in contrast to 15% in nearby Sweden and 38% in
the U.S., according to the British cycling organization CTC."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57557425061616...

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Whoe, ha,ha,ha..
Dutch wearing helmets for daily use cycling? Must be a foreigner to come
up with that idea...

Lou

"The Netherlands boasts the world's highest per capita use of bicycles.
It has thousands of miles of paved bicycle paths, with traffic lights
specifically for riders. It is dotted with sheltered bike parking.
Trains have bike compartments. Bikers get priority on most roads, and
youngsters take biking tests."

Exactly, and that without wearing helmets.
Let me tell you a story.
When I was in highschool (middelbare school in Dutch), all the teenagers
between 16 and 18 years old rode mopeds (brommers in Dutch). We could
ride them without helmets up to 40 km/hr. At some moment helmets became
mandatory and guess what, within a eyeblink mopeds almost vanished
completely. When they introduced mopeds that couldn't go faster that 25
km/hr and could be rode without helmets, mopeds got popular again by
teenagers. But of course upgrade kits got available very soon....
Mandatory helmets for bicycles in the Netherlands is not gonna happen.
Period.

Lou- Hide quoted text -

I have to ask -- what did the kids who quit riding mopeds do for
transportation?

We went back to bicycles and wait until we got our drivers licence at 18
year.

* *Did they drive cars, ride bikes, skateboard? *I don't

get the big issue with helmets -- why that would be a deal breaker for
cruising around on a moped. It's not like you're working up a sweat.

No but we went everywhere with our mopeds and we had to carry our
helmets with us. Could not leave them because they got stolen.
The girls worried about their haircuts.



I understand that some people think that riding with a helmet makes
them look like a dork, or musses their hair or makes them hot -- so
they don't ride. *That's the part I don't understand. I rode a bike
with a CAM walker fracture boot on one leg or the other for over six
months.http://orthotape.com/cam_walker.asp*You would have to put a
boat anchor on my head before I quit riding.

Figure a 72 year old lady that goes to a grocery store, with and without
a helmet.
Figure all the people who go by bike to the trainstation a take the
train from there to their work.
Figure all the kids who go to school by bike.We have to install lockers
for all the helmets. Thousand of them on every medium size highschool.
etc. etc.
Helmets are not practical and are unnecessary. Leave us alone please ;-)

Hey, I don't care if the Netherlands mandates helmets or not. I just
didn't understand why someone would abandon a mode of transportation
just because he or she had to wear a helmet. The Netherlands is
probably the last place where riders need helmets, but if Queen
Beatrix told me to where a helmet, I'd do it. I wouldn't sit up in my
stone house looking down at all those sweet bicycle avenues and refuse
to ride. I'd put on my Orange helmet and go.
http://www.chubbyscruisers.com/shop/...ish-p-898.html
I'd go a wholloping 10kmh down the avenue on my beater town bike with
baskets, but I'd go! -- Jay Beattie.

Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:19 am, wrote:
"Getting These Cyclists to Use Helmets Is Like Tilting at Windmills"
"Bicycle-Loving Dutch Hate Headgear; 'We Are Not in Germany'"

"But among Holland's millions of bikers, helmets are almost
nonexistent—and resistance to them is fierce. Only 0.1% of Dutch
bikers wear helmets, in contrast to 15% in nearby Sweden and 38% in
the U.S., according to the British cycling organization CTC."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...57557425061616...

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Don't be such a provincial jerk, Carl. The cycling milieu and motorist
mindset in The Netherlands is completely different from that in
States. The Dutch don't need helmets, Americans do. Read the New York
report, and if you don't have the mental staying power, read my
idiot's summary of it made for Krygowski. I assume you can google your
way to it. -- Andre Jute


My current girlfriend is Dutch so for the near future I'll
use her helmet exemption when I ride. Is that OK with you?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 03/11/10 1:06 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote:
Lou writes:

Figure all the kids who go to school by bike.We have to install
lockers for all the helmets. Thousand of them on every medium size
highschool. etc. etc.

Why don't they lock their helmets to their bikes? That's what I
do with my helmet.

Of course you are aware that Lou is just kidding. No school installs
lockers for helmets. Look on any campus where there are a lot of bicycle
commuters and you'll see the helmets hanging from the handlebars,
usually unlocked, occasionally locked.

Jay Beattie wrote:

I have to ask -- what did the kids who quit riding mopeds do for
transportation? *Did they drive cars, ride bikes, skateboard? *I don't
get the big issue with helmets -- why that would be a deal breaker for
cruising around on a moped. It's not like you're working up a sweat.

I understand that some people think that riding with a helmet makes
them look like a dork, or musses their hair or makes them hot -- so
they don't ride. *That's the part I don't understand. I rode a bike
with a CAM walker fracture boot on one leg or the other for over six
months. http://orthotape.com/cam_walker.asp* You would have to put a
boat anchor on my head before I quit riding.

Okay, look at it this way. Say there is a grocery store in your
neighborhood that won't let you in unless you are wearing ANSI
certified protective eyewear with side shields, steel-toed boots with
oil-resistant non-slip soles, and a hard hat.

All these things reduce the risk of injuries that foreseeably could
happen to you-- that have been demonstrated to occur repeatedly-- in a
grocery store. And wearing those required items can be considered to
offer some protection in almost any circumstances whatsoever. And the
items are inexpensive and easy to wear. You can even buy them right
at the store in question.

So do you wear them to do your grocery shopping, or do you simply do
your shopping another grocery store that doesn't require them? And
how would you regard a person who decided it was not only expedient,
but actually necessary to wear such safety gear to address the many
risks of grocery shopping?

Chalo