Dropout adjuster screws

Hi,
are dropout adjuster screws required for semi-vertical dropouts?

Thanks & regards

Rik O'Shea wrote:
Hi,
are dropout adjuster screws required for semi-vertical dropouts?


They aren't 'required' in any frame end but many horizontal
and 'semi' designs are drilled for them, a feature many
riders find convenient. The GPM angled ends on 1990s
Bianchis are especially cute with chromed screws.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Dec 3, 5:46*pm, "Rik O'Shea" wrote:
Hi,
are dropout adjuster screws required for semi-vertical dropouts?

Thanks & regards

The axle positioning screws may be required if you wish to fine tune
the shifting quality of a single pivot derailleur such as an old
Campag'. If you use a dual pivot derailleur then there is no point
to axle adjustment, you're stuck with the shifting speed you're
given. Single pivot advantage is very strong with single chainring or
a half-step setup. The wider the spacing between chainrings the more
obvious the choice goes to the modern style dual pivot.

This in no way affect whether you choose to salt your nuts vertically
or otherwise, but jam donuts are best with cream, don't eat the
divots, there's cheese 'n' crackers in the clubhouse. Use the wrong
nuts and you break your teeth.

Rik O'Shea wrote:

are dropout adjuster screws required for semi-vertical dropouts?

Never required, ever. If I had a bike equipped with them, I'd remove
them both and discard them.

Chalo

Jobst Brandt wrote:

Get Vertical dropouts and be done with the fore and aft, unsupported
knurled jam nuts that eat divots in the dropout and break axles.

The problem you describe is 100% solvable without crippling a bike
frame with vertical dropouts. It is much easier to use a hub with an
oversized axle, or even just oversized axle locknuts, than it is to
make vertical dropouts function properly with gearhubs, single-speed
hubs, coaster brakes, or (God help us) fixed gears.

A rear derailleur has the sophistication of a can opener. A front
derailleur has the sophistication of chopsticks. You might not mind
limiting your bike to these sad options, but others would be better
served in having a bike frame that can escape such a predicament at
will.

I know that in my own shop, a used road bike frame with horizontal
dropouts is worth about twice as much as one with vertical slots. And
it will sell sooner.

Chalo

On Dec 4, 3:06*am, Chalo wrote:

The problem you describe is 100% solvable without crippling a bike
frame with vertical dropouts. *It is much easier to use a hub with an
oversized axle, or even just oversized axle locknuts, than it is to
make vertical dropouts function properly with gearhubs, single-speed
hubs, coaster brakes, or (God help us) fixed gears.

I haven't used one myself, but I hear good reports IRT the ENO hub
used for fixed gear in vertical and for that matter, horizontal DO's
or track rear fork ends. Couldn't be much "easier" from what I've
seen; only slightly more complicated than OS axles and/or nuts.

A rear derailleur has the sophistication of a can opener.

What more do you need to open a can?

*A front derailleur has the sophistication of chopsticks.

"Just takes a little practice" g.

*You might not mind
limiting your bike to these sad options,

I don't think they're "sad" at all.

but others would be better
served in having a bike frame that can escape such a predicament at
will.

And some wouldn't.

I know that in my own shop, a used road bike frame with horizontal
dropouts is worth about twice as much as one with vertical slots. *And
it will sell sooner.

Because, for one thing, those are "easier" and cheaper to set up for
fixed or SS use?
--D-y

Jobst Brandt wrote:
Chalo Colina wrote:

Get Vertical dropouts and be done with the fore and aft,
unsupported knurled jam nuts that eat divots in the dropout and
break axles.

The problem you describe is 100% solvable without crippling a bike
frame with vertical dropouts. It is much easier to use a hub with
an oversized axle, or even just oversized axle locknuts, than it is
to make vertical dropouts function properly with gearhubs,
single-speed hubs, coaster brakes, or (God help us) fixed gears.

A rear derailleur has the sophistication of a can opener. A front
derailleur has the sophistication of chopsticks. You might not mind
limiting your bike to these sad options, but others would be better
served in having a bike frame that can escape such a predicament at
will.

I know that in my own shop, a used road bike frame with horizontal
dropouts is worth about twice as much as one with vertical slots.
And it will sell sooner.

I don't understand what you find "crippling" about vertical dropouts.
I see only advantages and I believe most avid bicyclists use
derailleur gears with standard 10mm diameter hollow axles. I also
don't understand what the chainwheel derailleur has to do with this.

As I mentioned, I broke many rear axles before switching to vertical
dropouts and broke too many longitudinally slotted rear dropouts
caused by axle flexing in longitudinal axle slots that had worn deeply
gouged wear grooves fro the hardened Campagnolo knurled jam nuts, so
deep that it required beating on the tire with the fist to dislodge
the axle when removing a rear wheel.

Maybe you can explain what advantages you perceive for most riders
using dropouts with longitudinal slots... that are nearly gone from
the market for their failings.


It's quicker and cheaper to set up a scrounged urban fixie
with horizontal ends, as Chalo so trendily points out.

With a rear derailleur, vertical ends make more sense.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

wrote:
On Dec 4, 3:06 am, Chalo wrote:

The problem you describe is 100% solvable without crippling a bike
frame with vertical dropouts. It is much easier to use a hub with an
oversized axle, or even just oversized axle locknuts, than it is to
make vertical dropouts function properly with gearhubs, single-speed
hubs, coaster brakes, or (God help us) fixed gears.

I haven't used one myself, but I hear good reports IRT the ENO hub
used for fixed gear in vertical and for that matter, horizontal DO's
or track rear fork ends. Couldn't be much "easier" from what I've
seen; only slightly more complicated than OS axles and/or nuts.

A rear derailleur has the sophistication of a can opener.

What more do you need to open a can?

A front derailleur has the sophistication of chopsticks.

"Just takes a little practice" g.

You might not mind
limiting your bike to these sad options,

I don't think they're "sad" at all.

but others would be better
served in having a bike frame that can escape such a predicament at
will.

And some wouldn't.

I know that in my own shop, a used road bike frame with horizontal
dropouts is worth about twice as much as one with vertical slots. And
it will sell sooner.

Because, for one thing, those are "easier" and cheaper to set up for
fixed or SS use?
--D-y

White ENO hubs are now offered in their own proprietary
fixed spine interface only. When they made eccentric-axle
real track hubs, they sold much better.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/04/2010 01:14 PM, Jobst Brandt wrote:
Andrew Muzi wrote:

Get Vertical dropouts and be done with the fore and aft,
unsupported knurled jam nuts that eat divots in the dropout and
break axles.

The problem you describe is 100% solvable without crippling a bike
frame with vertical dropouts. It is much easier to use a hub with
an oversized axle, or even just oversized axle locknuts, than it
is to make vertical dropouts function properly with gearhubs,
single-speed hubs, coaster brakes, or (God help us) fixed gears.

A rear derailleur has the sophistication of a can opener. A front
derailleur has the sophistication of chopsticks. You might not
mind limiting your bike to these sad options, but others would be
better served in having a bike frame that can escape such a
predicament at will.

I know that in my own shop, a used road bike frame with horizontal
dropouts is worth about twice as much as one with vertical slots.
And it will sell sooner.

I don't understand what you find "crippling" about vertical
dropouts. I see only advantages and I believe most avid bicyclists
use derailleur gears with standard10mm diameter hollow axles. I
also don't understand what the chainwheel derailleur has to do with
this.

As I mentioned, I broke many rear axles before switching to
vertical dropouts and broke too many longitudinally slotted rear
dropouts caused by axle flexing in longitudinal axle slots that had
worn deeply gouged wear grooves fro the hardened Campagnolo knurled
jam nuts, so deep that it required beating on the tire with the
fist to dislodge the axle when removing a rear wheel.

Maybe you can explain what advantages you perceive for most riders
using dropouts with longitudinal slots... that are nearly gone from
the market for their failings.

It's quicker and cheaper to set up a scrounged urban fixie with
horizontal ends, as Chalo so trendily points out.

I'm not moved by the need of "scrounged urban fixie" bicycles to be
equipped to make the "crippling" and ease of assembly aspects to
benefit of longitudinal slots... that are in themselves crippling for
riders with QR axles for hill climbing chain tension and gouging
Campagnolo jam nuts.

With a rear derailleur, vertical ends make more sense.

... or with any QR axle.

Jobst Brandt

I will agree with this. My favorite bike has horizontal dropouts, but
that is actually a drawback not a positive for my use. I had to find
some "vintage" chromed steel QRs to keep the rear wheel from cocking in
the frame when climbing or accelerating quickly. Not a problem on my
other bike with generic alu QR's!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Dec 4, 11:29*am, AMuzi wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 4, 3:06 am, Chalo wrote:

The problem you describe is 100% solvable without crippling a bike
frame with vertical dropouts. *It is much easier to use a hub with an
oversized axle, or even just oversized axle locknuts, than it is to
make vertical dropouts function properly with gearhubs, single-speed
hubs, coaster brakes, or (God help us) fixed gears.

I haven't used one myself, but I hear good reports IRT the ENO hub
used for fixed gear in vertical and for that matter, horizontal DO's
or track rear fork ends. Couldn't be much "easier" from what I've
seen; only slightly more complicated than OS axles and/or nuts.

A rear derailleur has the sophistication of a can opener.

What more do you need to open a can?

*A front derailleur has the sophistication of chopsticks.

"Just takes a little practice" g.

*You might not mind
limiting your bike to these sad options,

I don't think they're "sad" at all.

but others would be better
served in having a bike frame that can escape such a predicament at
will.

And some wouldn't.

I know that in my own shop, a used road bike frame with horizontal
dropouts is worth about twice as much as one with vertical slots. *And
it will sell sooner.

Because, for one thing, those are "easier" and cheaper to set up for
fixed or SS use?
--D-y

White ENO hubs are now offered in their own proprietary
fixed spine interface only. When they made eccentric-axle
real track hubs, they sold much better.

I really don't have a dog in the fight at this point, but I would hope
White remembers how to make real track hubs again.
Or maybe the fixie phase will die out before the next generation of
cheap frames with vertical DO's is needfully pressed into service,
after the old horizontal-DO frames are all ruined by locking up with
logging chains and having their front ends crunched in (not wishing)
while brakelessly running into solid objects.

In my very humble opinion, solving a problem that wasn't really a
problem. My immersion in the pista milieu was somewhat brief and
limited, but I don't remember people wearing out hub threads by
changing cogs for warmup and different events during omnium/sprint
series evenings at Alkek. No doubt the splines are slick and would
make it easier/faster to swap cogs, and might even improve security of
installation to some extent (just raising the possibility). But,
obviously, not a design that advantages the "road" user, at least as
far as I can see.
--D-y