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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 11th 08, 12:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay[_2_]
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Posts: 741
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week, even
before I get it.

My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.

http://www.mikesbike.com/pages/amsterdam.htm

Confused as usual - J.






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  #2  
Old February 11th 08, 12:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
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Posts: 6,336
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

On Feb 10, 5:28 pm, "Jay" wrote:
OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week, even
before I get it.

My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.


Dynamo:$10 Generator hub: $100

In urban Chicago, just get a AA powered "be seen" LED. Use the dynamo
occasionally to impress teh ladies.

whiiiiiiiir
  #3  
Old February 11th 08, 01:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 741
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?


"landotter" wrote in message
...
On Feb 10, 5:28 pm, "Jay" wrote:
OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week,
even
before I get it.

My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going
this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design,
they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.


Dynamo:$10 Generator hub: $100

In urban Chicago, just get a AA powered "be seen" LED. Use the dynamo
occasionally to impress teh ladies.

whiiiiiiiir

When my DiNotte headlight has gone out, I have used other headlights on a
temp basis. I think I need to see the oncoming pavement, not simply 'be
seen' by traffic. I am not trying to 'cheap out' on this. I am looking
forward at least a couple years, in this purchase.

At this time of year, in the morning, 5am in my neighborhood is really dark,
and there are no street lights in my suburb.

J.


  #4  
Old February 11th 08, 01:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,336
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

On Feb 10, 6:10 pm, "Jay" wrote:
"landotter" wrote in message

...

On Feb 10, 5:28 pm, "Jay" wrote:
OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week,
even
before I get it.


My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going
this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design,
they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.


Dynamo:$10 Generator hub: $100


In urban Chicago, just get a AA powered "be seen" LED. Use the dynamo
occasionally to impress teh ladies.


whiiiiiiiir


When my DiNotte headlight has gone out, I have used other headlights on a
temp basis. I think I need to see the oncoming pavement, not simply 'be
seen' by traffic. I am not trying to 'cheap out' on this. I am looking
forward at least a couple years, in this purchase.

At this time of year, in the morning, 5am in my neighborhood is really dark,
and there are no street lights in my suburb.


Gotcha. I lived in Wicker Park and Ukrainian Village where the street
lights are great. Hey, ride over to Ricks Deli on Western at Chicago
Avenue and have some Vigo's Hunter's Cabbage for me.
  #5  
Old February 11th 08, 02:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute
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Posts: 433
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

Jay wrote:

OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week, even
before I get it.

My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.

http://www.mikesbike.com/pages/amsterdam.htm

Confused as usual - J.


You *were* confused, Jay. Now you have reduced the remaining questions
to one; that's progress!

Here's some descriptive comparisons from my use of similar bikes:

I have an AXA generator on my Gazelle Toulouse, with the disc brake.
The Toulouse was same as the Chamonix but with the disc/sidewall
generator replacing the Chamonix's hub dynamo/rollerbrake combo.
Perhaps Gazelle did it to keep the weight low, or perhaps to keep the
Toulouse price the same as the Chamonix. Electra may have similarly
confused motives with the Amsterdam.

The AXA sidewall generator on my Gazelle Toulouse does not make a
weaker light than the hub dynamo on my Trek L700 Navigator. You can
use either light as an only light to ride by on lit streets streets;
they also help you be seen. Neither light is strong enough to use as
an only light on strange unlit roads; they will just about do on
familiar unlit roads. On both the sidewall generator and the hub
dynamo you have very substantial part of their available light already
at only 6 or 7 mph; however, the light dies altogether when you stop
(you can get socalled standlights; the only useful ones have
capacitors and light up the main light at full power). I use 5W flood
and 10W spot battery lights in addition to the generator/dynamo
lights. I would strongly suggest that you transfer whatever battery
lights you have on your current bike, or buy good battery lights for
your new bike.

The choice between the sidewall generator/hub dynamo therefore has to
be made on another consideration.

It will probably cost 100-150 bucks to get a front wheel with a dynamo
hub and rollerbrake built in to match the style and rear wheel of an
Amsterdam.

The point of a hub dynamo light is that it is always there, that it
gets you home when your batteries suddenly clock out, that it adds to
your visibility. The generator light ditto. But the hub dynamo has the
advantage that it works under all conditions. The question is, if you
will have hi-watt battery lights anyway, will the conditions in which
you ride (slush? ice?) so often make the sidewall generator unusable
as to justify spending extra money? (I have no experience of cycling
in such conditions, so I have no advice.)

A word about the lights that will come on your Amsterdam:

The Basta at the front is a probably a good light; to improve on it
significantly you will have to have the hub dynamo wheel, and buy BUMM
lights, which are pricey, and you will still need hi-watt battery
lights because 2.4 or 3W lights, even the BUMMs, just aren't good
enough for really adverse circumstances.

The rear light is probably either a Basta or a Spanninga. These are
good lights in their Dutch environment, where a car driver who hits a
cyclist is automatically held to be in the wrong unless there are
mitigating circumstances, but in Chicago (or anywhere outside the
Benelux) they are not bright and obvious enough. On my Trek I have the
best of that lot, the Spaninga Ultra. It's greatest feature is that
after a 50 hours it is almost as brightly visible as in the first
hour, and it has space for a pair of spare batteries inside. (The
Toulouse has a custom Gazelle light, made for them by Basta; it too is
automatic, it too is very economical, it too is not bright enough by
itself to make me feel secure.) I kept the Spanninga rear light on the
Trek because it is very lightweight and very economical and because it
switches itself on at dusk, but I promply backed it up with a Cateye
LD-1100 which is totally illegal in the Benelux and Germany...

****

So, in summary, Dutch and German sidewall generator or hub dynamo
front lights, and battery rear lights (or dynamo rear lights for that
matter) are good enough for backup and an added layer of visibility.
Both should be viewed as permanent emergency installations and
supplemented with hi-watt battery lights at the front and a flashing
LED (the Cateye LD1100 is the best unless you want to lash out for a
Dinotte rear light) at the back.

Thus, whether you should accept the sidewall generator or spend extra
on a hub dynamo/rollerbrake/wheel depends on your view of how many
days in the year riding conditions will make the sidewall generator
work unacceptably and thereby compromise a secondary system.

HTH.

Andre Jute
If you aren't paranoid, why are you a cyclist?

  #6  
Old February 11th 08, 03:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 433
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

On Feb 11, 12:10*am, "Jay" wrote:
"landotter" wrote in message

...

On Feb 10, 5:28 pm, "Jay" wrote:
OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week,
even
before I get it.


My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going
this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design,
they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.


Dynamo:$10 Generator hub: $100


In urban Chicago, just get a AA powered "be seen" LED. Use the dynamo
occasionally to impress teh ladies.


whiiiiiiiir


When my DiNotte headlight has gone out, I have used other headlights on a
temp basis. I think I need to see the oncoming pavement, not simply 'be
seen' by traffic. I am not trying to 'cheap out' on this. I am looking
forward at least a couple years, in this purchase.


If the Electra Amdsterdam is at all decently screwed together (well-
made wheels, good level of standard Taiwanese headset and bottom
bracket) I think a "couple of years" would be an insult -- a bike like
that for that price should be a permanent utility. After all, the
frame won't rust, the Shimano parts are known-good, so what else is
there to go wrong?

There is no reason to believe Electra bikes are substandard in any
way; I've been looking into the CF Townie and have come across no
reports of poorly made bikes.

Andre Jute
11.5km today just for fun -- I'm declaring it the first day of the
spring

  #7  
Old February 11th 08, 04:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...

The Basta at the front is a probably a good light; to improve on it
significantly you will have to have the hub dynamo wheel, and buy BUMM
lights, which are pricey, and you will still need hi-watt battery
lights because 2.4 or 3W lights, even the BUMMs, just aren't good
enough for really adverse circumstances.


Um, have you actually tried a decent set of dynamo lights?

I've used 3W halogen lamps as the sole source of front lighting for many
years, in all conditions. Others on this group have too - though I know you
have personal problems with them (the people, not the lights). SMS claims
they're unusable, but that's his theory, not real world experience.

More recently, LED lamps such as the B+M IQ fly have really raised the
game - the 3W halogen was good enough, the 2.4W LED in the IQ fly or is
stunning.

Of course one of the advantages of the LED lamps is their incredibly low
starting speed - the halogen lamps require that you be going a bit faster,
which might make them less suitable for people like you who ride at a less
'enthusiastic' speed (no offence intended by this remark - it's just that I
know in normal life you're riding quite a lot slower than many of the
historic proponents of dynamo lighting on this NG, and 6-8mph is getting
close to the starting speed for halogen lamps).

So, in summary, Dutch and German sidewall generator or hub dynamo
front lights, and battery rear lights (or dynamo rear lights for that
matter) are good enough for backup and an added layer of visibility.
Both should be viewed as permanent emergency installations and
supplemented with hi-watt battery lights at the front and a flashing
LED (the Cateye LD1100 is the best unless you want to lash out for a
Dinotte rear light) at the back.


That's SMS talk. See above - dynamo lights are entirely good enough for
primary lighting on their own, and with the new generation of LED lamps, are
even better.

(for rear, the choice of something like a D-toplight with standlight or a
battery light on its own is less clear-cut - I'd go for the former, because
I want something which is genuinely fit-and-forget, but battery ones aren't
too bad)

clive

  #8  
Old February 11th 08, 04:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bob prohaska's usenet account
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Posts: 57
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

Jay wrote:
OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week, even
before I get it.

My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.

Hub dynamos are expensive, heavy and troublefree. If you're
hillclimbing or poor, I'd avoid them. Otherwise, they're fine.

Having said that, friction-drive dynamos aren't all that troublesome,
weigh and cost a bunch less and are easily replaced if they quit.
Just take care they're mounted correctly.

bob prohaska

  #9  
Old February 11th 08, 07:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 769
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

Jay wrote:
OK, guys, this is really it. I need to spend my tax return this week, even
before I get it.

My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA
generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there
any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this
route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they
would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power.

http://www.mikesbike.com/pages/amsterdam.htm

Confused as usual - J.


For my tuppence worth, a hub dynamo outperform a bottle dynamo all the
time. It doesn't slip in the wet or ice, it doesn't wear out tyre
walls, it doesn't need switching on and off, it doesn't need keeping
straight, it doesn't need rubbers, it has less drag, it's quieter...

So, if you are intent on a dynamo system, a Shimano Nexus hub dynamo
with B+M Senso+Standlight front and rear. Fit and forget. Tried and
tested over two winters, I will never go back.

However, as others have pointed out, unless you plan on a fair bit of
night mileage, an LED light system must surely be the way forward for
simplicity and effectiveness.
  #10  
Old February 11th 08, 08:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Hank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 887
Default Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?

On Feb 10, 5:49 pm, Andre Jute wrote:

It will probably cost 100-150 bucks to get a front wheel with a dynamo
hub and rollerbrake built in to match the style and rear wheel of an
Amsterdam.


FWIW, the least expensive dynohub I've seen is the Sturmey-Archer X-
FDD, which contains both a dynamo and a drum brake. I paid about $60
for the hub. I built the wheel for a shade under $100.

The Basta at the front is a probably a good light; to improve on it
significantly you will have to have the hub dynamo wheel, and buy BUMM
lights, which are pricey, and you will still need hi-watt battery
lights because 2.4 or 3W lights, even the BUMMs, just aren't good
enough for really adverse circumstances.


The BUMM IQ Fly is as bright as any battery-powered light that was
made prior to about three or four years ago. Spit out the Scharf Kool-
Aid.
 




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