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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? (any doctors in the house?)
Starting a seperate thread based on some comments I reproduce below.
I once saw a study of NFL football (American) players, which showed that they had, as a class, some of the highest concentrations of testosterone. They actually tied with criminals as I recall. The obvious question then is whether testosterone, which unlike some other drugs is produced naturally in the body, can "spike" naturally above the legal limit (or ratio) of 6:1 (testosterone to epitestosterone). Is it possible in the heat of battle (short term) or by diligent exercise (long term) to increase your testosterone over the legal limit without taking performance enhancing drugs? Some studies suggest so, according to some posters. Any doctors or medical researchers in this NG would could comment? Perhaps a lot of athletes have been robbed of their medals. RL ========================== Testosterone and epitestosterone are both synthesised by the body, so that in urine the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is 6. If a sport competitor takes testosterone as a performance enhancing drug, the ratio is increased above 6. Boyd ') wrote: dannyfrankszzz said the following on 27/07/2006 15:31: I can't believe this! Pro cycling has to be about the biggest joke going. "The American, who claimed victory in the Tour de France on Sunday, has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone." Maybe I've missed something, but isn't it normal for a male to have testosterone??? Yes, within certain ranges. More improves your performance. What's alleged is than Landis' level after the 17th stage was 'anomalous', which I think is a polite way of saying 'outside the natural range'. Although, of course, different people differ in their natural levels of testosterone. "Rusty Spokes" wrote in message ... I can't believe anyone would be so stupid take a substance knowing that if he won the stage a test for drugs would be automatic. Have to agree with that - given the appearance of Landis when he crossed the line at Morzine (delight/anger/revenge ...) then his body was probably producing vast and varying quantities of all the natural chemicals ! RG = n message , Rusty Spokes ') wrote: I can't believe anyone would be so stupid take a substance knowing that if he won the stage a test for drugs would be automatic. He was drinking a lot of water. I assumed it was in response to bonking with dehydration the previous day, but others are saying that it was to flush the drugs out of his system. He took SEVENTY bidons from the team car - admittedly he emptied a lot of those over himself, but seventy... you could bath in that. 28 From: dga - view profile Date: Thurs, Jul 27 2006 11:02 am Email: "dga" Groups: uk.rec.cycling Not yet rated Rating: show options Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author I'm amazed at how readily some people accept that riders are doping without as readily accepting that some of the tests may be faulty. I guess that's the nature of fundamentalist anti-doping religion. You believe something and have no intelligence to question your own beliefs. It is possible Landis doped. And it is possible the test is faulty. Similar to Tyler Hamilton's case, although in that case a world leading geneticist believes that the test is faulty. But don't tell that to the anti-doping religious fundamentalists, since reason is not something that applies to how they think or draw conclusions. Dennis - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted think a lot of bike riders (and other athletes/sportspeople) dope. I also think that there are some innocent people whose lives are ruined by faulty tests (as someone else said, anti-doping is a form of fundamentalist religion which brooks no questioning). I have no idea whether Landis doped, whether his very visible anger coupled with extreme exertion in hot weather drove his T up somehow, or whether there was something wrong with the test. Absent an admission of guilt from Landis or clear exoneration on the B sample or endocrine test, none of us will ever be sure of the truth and cycling will take another hard knock. Likewise for Armstrong, Basso, Hamilton, and Ullrich - I have no idea whether they were/are clean. I really hope they were/are, but I have no way to ever be sure of that. Each good performance I saw from a rider in this year's Tour I was wondering "is that guy on something?" It really took the edge off my enjoyment. If Landis is found guilty, I fear we will no longer get coverage of cycling here in the USA. But maybe I don't care that much any more, because the joy of watching it is gone. It's all so desperately sad. -- Peter Headland |
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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? (any doctors in the house?)
"raylopez99" wrote in
oups.com: Starting a seperate thread based on some comments I reproduce below. What did the team doctor give him to recovery after the previous stage? Dave |
#3
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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? (any doctors inthe house?)
I believe that although the total level of both go up the ratio does not
change that much. I'm not a doctor though! ttfn Jane |
#4
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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? (any doctors inthe house?)
Dave L wrote:
"raylopez99" wrote in oups.com: Starting a seperate thread based on some comments I reproduce below. What did the team doctor give him to recovery after the previous stage? Dave Beer (sic)! |
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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? [LANDIS WAS ROBBED. PERIOD. Read this!]
There's more than meets the eye here. Note testosterone was detected
for the first time at Stage 17 of the race and would NOT have affected his performance. Regardless of what the B-sample shows, Landis should be allowed to keep his medal. Clearly the abnormal ratio is a false positive or anomalous due to the other medication he is taking for thyroid and/or pain and in any event did not affect his performance. Poor *******, I feel sorry for him and I don't even follow racing. RL Tour winner Landis fails doping test By Stephen Wilson ASSOCIATED PRESS July 28, 2006 LONDON -- Floyd Landis' Tour de France victory was thrown into question yesterday when his team said he tested positive for high testosterone levels during stage 17, when the American champion began his stunning comeback with a charge into the Alps. The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the International Cycling Union (UCI) on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed an "unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 on July 20. "My immediate reaction was to look for the alcohol bottle," joked Landis, who is known to enjoy a beer on the Tour and said he drank whiskey with teammates to bury their sorrows after Landis nearly fell out of contention the day before his stage 17 charge. The 30-year-old Landis made a dramatic comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. Despite a degenerative hip condition that will require surgery, he regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later. Testosterone creams, pills and injections can build muscle and strength and improve recovery time after exertion when used over several weeks. Testosterone is included as an anabolic steroid by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) on its list of banned substances. The use of supplements can be punished by a two-year ban. Under the agency's regulations, a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone greater than 4-to-1 is considered a positive result and subject to investigation. The most likely natural ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in humans is 1-to-1. However, if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the Tour would have been affected, too, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a WADA member and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. The stage 17 test was the first reported abnormal result. One-time use of steroids could result in an abnormal test, but it would have no effect on performance and could not account for Landis' astounding feat in that stage. "So something's missing here," Dr. Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up." Asked repeatedly what might have caused his positive test, Landis refused to lay blame on anything in particular. "As to what actually caused it on that particular day, I can only speculate," he said. However, Landis suggested in a story posted on Sports Illustrated's Web site that a small amount of hormone he has been taking for a thyroid condition or the cortisone shots he gets for hip pain could have skewed the result. Doctors, however, said the cortisone would not affect his test results. raylopez99 wrote: Starting a seperate thread based on some comments I reproduce below. I once saw a study of NFL football (American) players, which showed that they had, as a class, some of the highest concentrations of testosterone. They actually tied with criminals as I recall. The obvious question then is whether testosterone, which unlike some other drugs is produced naturally in the body, can "spike" naturally above the legal limit (or ratio) of 6:1 (testosterone to epitestosterone). Is it possible in the heat of battle (short term) or by diligent exercise (long term) to increase your testosterone over the legal limit without taking performance enhancing drugs? Some studies suggest so, according to some posters. Any doctors or medical researchers in this NG would could comment? Perhaps a lot of athletes have been robbed of their medals. RL ========================== Testosterone and epitestosterone are both synthesised by the body, so that in urine the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is 6. If a sport competitor takes testosterone as a performance enhancing drug, the ratio is increased above 6. Boyd ') wrote: dannyfrankszzz said the following on 27/07/2006 15:31: I can't believe this! Pro cycling has to be about the biggest joke going. "The American, who claimed victory in the Tour de France on Sunday, has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone." Maybe I've missed something, but isn't it normal for a male to have testosterone??? Yes, within certain ranges. More improves your performance. What's alleged is than Landis' level after the 17th stage was 'anomalous', which I think is a polite way of saying 'outside the natural range'. Although, of course, different people differ in their natural levels of testosterone. |
#6
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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? [LANDIS WAS ROBBED. PERIOD. Read this!]
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#7
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Naturally occuring high testosterone levels? [LANDIS WAS ROBBED.PERIOD. Read this!]
raylopez99 wrote:
There's more than meets the eye here. Note testosterone was detected for the first time at Stage 17 of the race and would NOT have affected his performance. Regardless of what the B-sample shows, Landis should be allowed to keep his medal. Clearly the abnormal ratio is a false positive or anomalous due to the other medication he is taking for thyroid and/or pain and in any event did not affect his performance. Poor *******, I feel sorry for him and I don't even follow racing. RL Tour winner Landis fails doping test By Stephen Wilson ASSOCIATED PRESS July 28, 2006 LONDON -- Floyd Landis' Tour de France victory was thrown into question yesterday when his team said he tested positive for high testosterone levels during stage 17, when the American champion began his stunning comeback with a charge into the Alps. The Swiss-based Phonak team said it was notified by the International Cycling Union (UCI) on Wednesday that Landis' sample showed an "unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after stage 17 on July 20. "My immediate reaction was to look for the alcohol bottle," joked Landis, who is known to enjoy a beer on the Tour and said he drank whiskey with teammates to bury their sorrows after Landis nearly fell out of contention the day before his stage 17 charge. The 30-year-old Landis made a dramatic comeback in that Alpine stage, racing far ahead of the field for a solo win that moved him from 11th to third in the overall standings. Despite a degenerative hip condition that will require surgery, he regained the leader's yellow jersey two days later. Testosterone creams, pills and injections can build muscle and strength and improve recovery time after exertion when used over several weeks. Testosterone is included as an anabolic steroid by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) on its list of banned substances. The use of supplements can be punished by a two-year ban. Under the agency's regulations, a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone greater than 4-to-1 is considered a positive result and subject to investigation. The most likely natural ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in humans is 1-to-1. However, if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the Tour would have been affected, too, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a WADA member and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. The stage 17 test was the first reported abnormal result. One-time use of steroids could result in an abnormal test, but it would have no effect on performance and could not account for Landis' astounding feat in that stage. "So something's missing here," Dr. Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up." Asked repeatedly what might have caused his positive test, Landis refused to lay blame on anything in particular. "As to what actually caused it on that particular day, I can only speculate," he said. However, Landis suggested in a story posted on Sports Illustrated's Web site that a small amount of hormone he has been taking for a thyroid condition or the cortisone shots he gets for hip pain could have skewed the result. Doctors, however, said the cortisone would not affect his test results. raylopez99 wrote: Starting a seperate thread based on some comments I reproduce below. I once saw a study of NFL football (American) players, which showed that they had, as a class, some of the highest concentrations of testosterone. They actually tied with criminals as I recall. The obvious question then is whether testosterone, which unlike some other drugs is produced naturally in the body, can "spike" naturally above the legal limit (or ratio) of 6:1 (testosterone to epitestosterone). Is it possible in the heat of battle (short term) or by diligent exercise (long term) to increase your testosterone over the legal limit without taking performance enhancing drugs? Some studies suggest so, according to some posters. Any doctors or medical researchers in this NG would could comment? Perhaps a lot of athletes have been robbed of their medals. RL ========================== Testosterone and epitestosterone are both synthesised by the body, so that in urine the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is 6. If a sport competitor takes testosterone as a performance enhancing drug, the ratio is increased above 6. Boyd ') wrote: dannyfrankszzz said the following on 27/07/2006 15:31: I can't believe this! Pro cycling has to be about the biggest joke going. "The American, who claimed victory in the Tour de France on Sunday, has tested positive for the male sex hormone testosterone." Maybe I've missed something, but isn't it normal for a male to have testosterone??? Yes, within certain ranges. More improves your performance. What's alleged is than Landis' level after the 17th stage was 'anomalous', which I think is a polite way of saying 'outside the natural range'. Although, of course, different people differ in their natural levels of testosterone. If the B test is another "non-negative" then it'll be a mess that'll have to get sorted out in court. The bureaucrats won't have the authority to simply allow him to keep the victory on the theory that the levels were actually "normal" or were created by normal processes. From their perspective that's irrelevant. |
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