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Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 11, 08:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
pH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

The way it's set up, the thin-line pads seems to be a pretty steep
contact angle and wear quickly on one side as a result (say, top vs.
bottom).

I've moved the rim a bit forward with the screw stops in the dropout
to enable a more square contact w/ the pad, but still not happy with
the wear.

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
- something called "Phat pads"
-something else called "supra" pads

All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.

pH
Ads
  #2  
Old May 14th 11, 10:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
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Posts: 1,270
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

On 5/14/2011 2:02 PM, pH wrote:
My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

The way it's set up, the thin-line pads seems to be a pretty steep
contact angle and wear quickly on one side as a result (say, top vs.
bottom).

I've moved the rim a bit forward with the screw stops in the dropout
to enable a more square contact w/ the pad, but still not happy with
the wear.

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
- something called "Phat pads"
-something else called "supra" pads

All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.


This is just a problem with the rear brake? And presumably your bike
has an ISO 622-mm (aka 700C) rear wheel?

Other useful information would be the model of brake and model/width of rim.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #3  
Old May 15th 11, 08:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

pH wrote:

My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

The way it's set up, the thin-line pads seems to be a pretty steep
contact angle and wear quickly on one side as a result (say, top vs.
bottom).

I've moved the rim a bit forward with the screw stops in the dropout
to enable a more square contact w/ the pad, but still not happy with
the wear.

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
* *- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
* *- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
* *- something called "Phat pads"
* *-something else called "supra" pads

All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.


Using a different pad will not help. The differential wear you
describe is corollary to the angle of incidence of the pad on the rim,
which is in turn a function of brake boss spacing and rim width.

The brake pads don't move straight in towards the rim sidewalls. They
rotate around the brake pivots. If the pivots are widely spaced, or
the rim is narrow, then the angle between the approach of the brake
pads and the rim sidewalls will necessarily be indirect. It makes no
difference how thick or thin the brake pads are, or how close or
distant they are from the brake arms. The dimensions of interest are
only the locations of the brake bosses with respect to the rim
sidewalls.

You can improve the incidency angle of pad on rim by using a much
wider rim, or by using a brake that has a parallelogram mechanism to
bring the pads more directly towards the rim sidewalls. But just
fooling around with different pads will not cause them to wear more
evenly.

P.S. - Your bike has far more profound problems than brake pad wear.
I would think atrocious ungainly handling, and being regularly
unrinated upon by dogs and humans, would be of much more urgent
concern.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er%22&tbm=isch

Chalo
  #4  
Old May 15th 11, 02:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,270
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

On 5/15/2011 2:11 AM, Çhâlõ Çólîñã wrote:
pH wrote:

My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

The way it's set up, the thin-line pads seems to be a pretty steep
contact angle and wear quickly on one side as a result (say, top vs.
bottom).

I've moved the rim a bit forward with the screw stops in the dropout
to enable a more square contact w/ the pad, but still not happy with
the wear.

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
- something called "Phat pads"
-something else called "supra" pads

All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.


Using a different pad will not help. The differential wear you
describe is corollary to the angle of incidence of the pad on the rim,
which is in turn a function of brake boss spacing and rim width.

The brake pads don't move straight in towards the rim sidewalls. They
rotate around the brake pivots. If the pivots are widely spaced, or
the rim is narrow, then the angle between the approach of the brake
pads and the rim sidewalls will necessarily be indirect. It makes no
difference how thick or thin the brake pads are, or how close or
distant they are from the brake arms. The dimensions of interest are
only the locations of the brake bosses with respect to the rim
sidewalls.

You can improve the incidency angle of pad on rim by using a much
wider rim, or by using a brake that has a parallelogram mechanism to
bring the pads more directly towards the rim sidewalls. But just
fooling around with different pads will not cause them to wear more
evenly.

P.S. - Your bike has far more profound problems than brake pad wear.
I would think atrocious ungainly handling, and being regularly
unrinated upon by dogs and humans, would be of much more urgent
concern.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er%22&tbm=isch


pH's bicycle lacks the problem of having a tiny saddle wedged up the
rider's arse. It will also *not* dump the rider on his/her face at
inopportune moments, such as Chalo himself has reported to us happening
on his horsey position bicycles.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #5  
Old May 15th 11, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

Chalo wrote:
pH wrote:
My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

The way it's set up, the thin-line pads seems to be a pretty steep
contact angle and wear quickly on one side as a result (say, top vs.
bottom).

I've moved the rim a bit forward with the screw stops in the dropout
to enable a more square contact w/ the pad, but still not happy with
the wear.

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
- something called "Phat pads"
-something else called "supra" pads

All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.


Using a different pad will not help. The differential wear you
describe is corollary to the angle of incidence of the pad on the rim,
which is in turn a function of brake boss spacing and rim width.

The brake pads don't move straight in towards the rim sidewalls. They
rotate around the brake pivots. If the pivots are widely spaced, or
the rim is narrow, then the angle between the approach of the brake
pads and the rim sidewalls will necessarily be indirect. It makes no
difference how thick or thin the brake pads are, or how close or
distant they are from the brake arms. The dimensions of interest are
only the locations of the brake bosses with respect to the rim
sidewalls.

You can improve the incidency angle of pad on rim by using a much
wider rim, or by using a brake that has a parallelogram mechanism to
bring the pads more directly towards the rim sidewalls. But just
fooling around with different pads will not cause them to wear more
evenly.

P.S. - Your bike has far more profound problems than brake pad wear.
I would think atrocious ungainly handling, and being regularly
unrinated upon by dogs and humans, would be of much more urgent
concern.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er%22&tbm=isch



I demurred from a frame repair on a similar product
yesterday. The genius designer had arranged two tubes butt
welded at a 45 degree angle to each other. Mirabile visu!
it cracked next to a weld.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #6  
Old May 16th 11, 12:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

AMuzi wrote:

Chalo wrote:

pH wrote:

My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

[...]
P.S. - *Your bike has far more profound problems than brake pad wear.
I would think atrocious ungainly handling, and being regularly
urinated upon by dogs and humans, would be of much more urgent
concern.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er%22&tbm=isch


I demurred from a frame repair on a similar product
yesterday. The genius designer had arranged two tubes butt
welded at a 45 degree angle to each other. *Mirabile visu!
it cracked next to a weld.


It's because recumbentists know the rest of us have been doing it
wrong all along, and they have figured out the right way to do
everything. So what if it doesn't work? It's still the right way.

Chalo
  #7  
Old May 16th 11, 01:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
pH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

snip

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
- something called "Phat pads"
-something else called "supra" pads


All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.


Using a different pad will not help. The differential wear you
describe is corollary to the angle of incidence of the pad on the rim,
which is in turn a function of brake boss spacing and rim width.

The brake pads don't move straight in towards the rim sidewalls. They
rotate around the brake pivots. If the pivots are widely spaced, or
the rim is narrow, then the angle between the approach of the brake
pads and the rim sidewalls will necessarily be indirect. It makes no
difference how thick or thin the brake pads are, or how close or
distant they are from the brake arms. The dimensions of interest are
only the locations of the brake bosses with respect to the rim
sidewalls.

You can improve the incidency angle of pad on rim by using a much
wider rim, or by using a brake that has a parallelogram mechanism to
bring the pads more directly towards the rim sidewalls. But just
fooling around with different pads will not cause them to wear more
evenly.

P.S. - Your bike has far more profound problems than brake pad wear.
I would think atrocious ungainly handling, and being regularly
unrinated upon by dogs and humans, would be of much more urgent
concern.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...er%22&tbm=isch

Chalo


Hi Chalo (and hello Tom from an earlier post.)

I'll be building up a 27" Wolber model 58 for this bike based on your
good advice, Chalo.

As far as bicycles go, I like all bicycles...'cept maybe Huffiies with
Ashtabula cranks and other
sub-$100 type examples.

I have a nice old Cannondale, too, along with the Easy Racer and I
love 'em both.

Anyay, the rim on the Easy Racer is a Velocity AeroHead OC, it's a
700C rim.

I undestand that my angle of incidence issues will not be resolved,
but I was just hoping to have a thicker pad so I won't have to deal
with it as often...provided there's no compelling reason I can't use
them.

A thicker pad...or a thin pad spaced out a mm or two farther from its
mount...will hit the rim more squarely before
it wears and pivots more, wearing it's upper (or distal) surface more
than the lower. Too, the V-brake pads are just so darn minimal. I
have enough mass that I wear brakes fast enough as it is...I am
irritated by the things.

Anyway, back to the issue...any compelling reason I should not give it
a whirl? I would rather not waste the $$ if it's a non-starter.

pH

Anway, that's what I'm after

  #8  
Old May 16th 11, 12:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Peter Howard[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)


"pH" wrote in message
...
My Easy Racer is equipped with V-brakes.

The way it's set up, the thin-line pads seems to be a pretty steep
contact angle and wear quickly on one side as a result (say, top vs.
bottom).

I've moved the rim a bit forward with the screw stops in the dropout
to enable a more square contact w/ the pad, but still not happy with
the wear.

My Question:
Is there any reason I cannot substitute the Kool Stop
- Eagle II threaded post pads OR
- so-called "Mountain" pads (appear to be v brake style) OR
- something called "Phat pads"
-something else called "supra" pads

All of the above are kool-stop brand.
I am soliciting opinions on this.


I'm coming in on this a little late but I want to ask whether your existing
brake pads have two hemispherical washers that go either side of the brake
arm and nestle into a thick and a thin cup shaped washer? In case this
sounds like gobbledegook here's a PDF of Shimano V brake set up. Look at the
bottom left hand pic that shows 3mm cup washer and 6mm cup washer .
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830612811.pdf
If brake arms lean in too much when pads contact rim maybe you don't have
the thicker cup washer on the inside against the back of the pad. Very many
after market brake pads do have this thick and thin washer adjustability
built in. The adjustability is there to cater for minor variations in brake
post spacing and rim width from one bike manufacturer to another.
If you've already thought of this my apologies. Only other thing I can think
of is that your Easyracer was designed for a wider rim than the one you
presently have.
PH

  #9  
Old May 16th 11, 11:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
pH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

snip
I'm coming in *on this a little late but I want to ask whether your existing
brake pads have two hemispherical washers that go either side of the brake
arm and nestle into a thick and a thin cup shaped washer? In case this
sounds like gobbledegook here's a PDF of Shimano V brake set up. Look at the
bottom left hand pic that shows 3mm cup washer and 6mm cup washer .http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...e/SI/Deore/BRM...
If brake arms lean in too much when pads contact rim maybe you don't have
the thicker cup washer on the inside against the back of the pad. Very many
after market brake pads do have this thick and thin washer adjustability
built in. The adjustability is there to cater for minor variations in brake
post spacing and rim width from one bike manufacturer to another.
If you've already thought of this my apologies. Only other thing I can think
of is that your Easyracer was designed for a wider rim than the one you
presently have.


Hi Peter.
Thanks for your informative reply.
I do indeed have them set up with the 6mm spacer on the wheel side,
and the 3mm on the outboard.
In fact, I've added a couple washers on the 6mm side to make it closer
to 7.5 mm.

The main (annoying) problem I am having is that parts of the hardware
(little pins through the pad...look like miniature
cotter pins--these are not kool-stop pads, btw) rub on the tire if I
place the pads squarely in the rubbing area of the rim,
but threaten to slide off the rim and into the spokes if I put them
low enough to avoid the above problem.

Thicker pads would allow me to ignore the cotter pins (maybe kool stop
does not even have them...I don't see them in photos of the product)
and better center the pads on the rim w/o anything else rubbing on the
tire itself, which is a nice, big Schwalbe Marathon 38mm.

Kind of wordy, but I hope I'm understandable.

pH

  #10  
Old May 17th 11, 12:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default Substitute for V-brake pad question (kool stop)

pH wrote:

The main (annoying) problem I am having is that parts of the hardware
(little pins through the pad...look like miniature
cotter pins--these are not kool-stop pads, btw) rub on the tire if I
place the pads squarely in the rubbing area of the rim,
but threaten to slide off the rim and into the spokes if I put them
low enough to avoid the above problem.

Thicker pads would allow me to ignore the cotter pins (maybe kool stop
does not even have them...I don't see them in photos of the product)


Only insert-style pads use retaining pins. Any solid unit pad will
not have pins. As I pointed out earlier, the pad incidence angle is
the same irrespective of pad. So use any Kool Stop pad that isn't an
insert and you're sorted out. I recommend Salmon compound and MTB
pattern, but Thinlines or Eagle Claw.II will do.

Chalo


Chalo
 




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