Most people think cyclists are cool :-)

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
JNugent wrote:

Fair enough.

I was expecting more fuss if it was a BB. The first person killed
undertaking a left-turning lorry on a BB will be headline news, I expect.


About 30,000 journeys a day on Boris bikes with a current death rate in
London of one per 17 million journeys. So mean time to the first Boris
Bike fatality is one and a half years. Against that you can add Boris
Bicyclists are probably less experiences and therefore more at risk but
the journeys they undertake are shorter and therefore present less risk.

The overwhelming probability will be its a woman killed by a left turning
lorry overtaking and then turning across her.

Tony



I'd have thought the overwhelming probability would be an inexperienced
cyclist passing a left turning lorry on the inside of moving up along side a
stopped left turning lorry at traffic lights.

but you are right on the location

pk

pk wrote:


I'd have thought the overwhelming probability would be an inexperienced
cyclist passing a left turning lorry on the inside of moving up along
side a stopped left turning lorry at traffic lights.


There are more inexperience male cyclists on the London Road (because
there are many more male cyclists in total) yet the lorry deaths are
almost all women. So being female seems to be the differentiating
characteristic not being inexperienced. In fact you need to be
reasonably confident cycling to be confident enough to go up the inside
of most lorries.

Tony

Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:

The overwhelming probability will be its a woman killed by a left
turning lorry overtaking and then turning across her.


why phrase it like that? most of the ones squashed on the left of
lorries, buses etc. have deliberately cycled up the inside in slow
or stationary traffic.


Your evidence for that statement?

Tony

reading crash reports for all the squashed cyclists and seeing crash sites.
what is your evidence that the lorry overtook and turned left?

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 13:11:54 +0100, Tony Raven
wrote:

pk wrote:


I'd have thought the overwhelming probability would be an inexperienced
cyclist passing a left turning lorry on the inside of moving up along
side a stopped left turning lorry at traffic lights.


There are more inexperience male cyclists on the London Road (because
there are many more male cyclists in total) yet the lorry deaths are
almost all women. So being female seems to be the differentiating
characteristic not being inexperienced. In fact you need to be
reasonably confident cycling to be confident enough to go up the inside
of most lorries.

I have only read 4 reports from a coroner's court on the death of a
female cyclist. Without exception the female victim has been an
experienced cyclist.

"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
...
Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:

The overwhelming probability will be its a woman killed by a left
turning lorry overtaking and then turning across her.


why phrase it like that? most of the ones squashed on the left of
lorries, buses etc. have deliberately cycled up the inside in slow
or stationary traffic.


Your evidence for that statement?

Tony

reading crash reports for all the squashed cyclists and seeing crash
sites. what is your evidence that the lorry overtook and turned left?

Would 'reading crash reports' include the recent Cromford one ? In which
case you have a very poor record of comprehension :-
"another one that cycled straight out and under a lorry" which is in direct
contradiction of the witness report

" I understood that the cyclists had come along water lane toward Cromford
hill" which is in direct contradiction of the witness report

OG wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message

reading crash reports for all the squashed cyclists and seeing crash
sites. what is your evidence that the lorry overtook and turned left?

Would 'reading crash reports' include the recent Cromford one ? In which
case you have a very poor record of comprehension :-
"another one that cycled straight out and under a lorry" which is in direct
contradiction of the witness report

" I understood that the cyclists had come along water lane toward Cromford
hill" which is in direct contradiction of the witness report


And don't forget this bit of insightful analysis when a container fell
off a lorry and crushed a cyclist to death:

"I am amazed she was actually on the road, I guess she just pedalled out
without looking (standard cyclist routine), causing the lorry to swerve
to avoid her and causing the container to fall on her."

I doubt there is a single accident in Mr Cheerless' world in which it
was not all the cyclist's fault.

Tony

Tony Raven wrote:
OG wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message

reading crash reports for all the squashed cyclists and seeing crash
sites. what is your evidence that the lorry overtook and turned
left?

Would 'reading crash reports' include the recent Cromford one ? In
which case you have a very poor record of comprehension :-
"another one that cycled straight out and under a lorry" which is
in direct contradiction of the witness report

" I understood that the cyclists had come along water lane toward
Cromford hill" which is in direct contradiction of the witness report


And don't forget this bit of insightful analysis when a container fell
off a lorry and crushed a cyclist to death:

"I am amazed she was actually on the road, I guess she just pedalled
out without looking (standard cyclist routine), causing the lorry to
swerve to avoid her and causing the container to fall on her."

I doubt there is a single accident in Mr Cheerless' world in which it
was not all the cyclist's fault.

Tony

cycling straight into the side of a great BFO lorry cannot actually be
anything other than the cyclists fault.

Many cyclists do not even look when pulling into major roads or roundabouts,
(indeed many cycle the wrong way round roundabouts because it is shorter),
which is probably why that lady got squashed by a mobile office.

Interesting coincidence that they were both cleaners IIRC.

Mrcheerful wrote:

cycling straight into the side of a great BFO lorry cannot actually be
anything other than the cyclists fault.

You've never had the experience of a vehicle overtaking you and
immediately turning left across you then.


Many cyclists do not even look when pulling into major roads or roundabouts,
(indeed many cycle the wrong way round roundabouts because it is shorter),
which is probably why that lady got squashed by a mobile office.


As I said, in your world it can never be other than the cyclist's fault.
So what's your explanation for the same thing happening in the same
place a week later with another lorry? Swerving to avoid a virtual
cyclist on the cycle path?

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...l/article.html

Tony

Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:

cycling straight into the side of a great BFO lorry cannot actually
be anything other than the cyclists fault.

You've never had the experience of a vehicle overtaking you and
immediately turning left across you then.


I do not cycle straight off the pavement nor pull out of a side road without
looking and making sure it is clear to proceed.
Since she hit the back end of the lorry it is pretty clear that the driver
of the truck was well past her when she crashed into the truck.

The truck driver had not 'overtaken her' since she was on the pavement,
there was no reason for him to assume that she would cycle straight off into
the back end of his truck, she might have cycled round the corner. It is
impossible to predict every future action by an irresponsible cyclist.

Mrcheerful wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:
cycling straight into the side of a great BFO lorry cannot actually
be anything other than the cyclists fault.
You've never had the experience of a vehicle overtaking you and
immediately turning left across you then.


I do not cycle straight off the pavement nor pull out of a side road without
looking and making sure it is clear to proceed.
Since she hit the back end of the lorry it is pretty clear that the driver
of the truck was well past her when she crashed into the truck.



How specific do I have to be to stop your evasion? Let me try again.

Have you never had the experience cycling on the road of having a
vehicle overtake you and turn left alongside you or immediately after
passing you?

If that were to happen and the back of a lorry was alongside you, in the
process of overtaking you, at the moment it turned, which bit of the
lorry do you think you are most likely to hit?

Sits and waits to see which evasion loopholes I've failed to close

Tony