Wheels and tires

On 3/29/2020 12:45 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:04:13 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Sepp Ruf wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 21:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 7:03:18 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 9:58:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/27/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:07:41 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote:

Turns out that in Italy with 9,134 deaths they only indicate
that 600 of them are due to Covid-19 and the rest of them to
pre-existing health condition which were exacerbated by the
virus and the crummy Italian socialized medical system could
not deal with.

The US now has the supposed highest number of "confirmed
infections". However, they are only testing people over 65 with
certain severe pre-existing health problems so again, the
statistics miss 80% of the infected population. And yet this
still gives us only 1.4% mortality rates.

I finally found a reference to the seasonal flu. It has a 3.83%
mortality rate or 3 times that of Covid-19. Moreover the
seasonal flu kills babies 5 and under and expecting mothers and
mothers who have given birth less than 6 months previous to the
flu. Since there is NO immunity in the entire population to
Covid-19 this is an exceptionally low mortality rate when
compared to the seasonal flu. 80% of the population is
vaccinated yearly for the flu and most of the population have
at least some immunity to it from previous infections.

According to the moronic Great Frankini and his pinhead
supporters actual knowledge doesn't count for anything; fear
and loathing is everything.

Don't worry Frankini - the term, "Up your nose with a rubber
hose" will hold an entirely new meaning for you after this
raging murderous plague has passed.

As usual Tommy has missed the mark. His assertion that only 600
deaths in Italy are due to the virus is somewhat at odds with
what the Italian Government has announced - that (Last updated:
March 28, 2020, 01:23 GMT) there have been 9,134 deaths due to
the virus.

I leave it up to the individual whether he/she/it believes Tom,
or the Government of Italy.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries As for
mortality rate, it is too early to actually calculate but of the
435,949 Currently Infected Patients some 23,519 (5%) are
classified Serious or Critical. Of the 160,400 cases which had
an outcome some 133,057 (83%) were classified as Recovered /
Discharged and 27,343 (17%) died.

Again, I leave it up to the individual whether he/she/it believes
Tom, or a somewhat more authoritative source.

That's funny! Credibility of The Italian Government! Now there's a
low bar.

Yes, I can see why the Italian government might lie just to make Tom
look bad.

- Frank Krygowski

Or you can post lies repeatedly to make anyone else look bad. You're
sort of an equal opportunity jerk. Hey, we can't help it if you don't
have any friends.

"Age, however, doesn’t tell the whole story about who is at risk of
severe disease. In fact, it reveals the underlying vulnerabilities in
the wider population to an illness like Covid-19. Many of these factors
are concentrated among older adults, but younger people with certain
underlying health problems are also at risk. (Sixty percent of
Americans have at least one chronic condition; 40 percent have more
than one.) "

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/211737...lderly-seniors

It's coming to get you - even the Great Frankini.
I find it interesting that above you state that , "Turns out that in
Italy with 9,134 deaths they only indicate that 600 of them are due to
Covid-1" and now after I point out that this is a lie you now change your
tune and sing a wholly different song.

Back to facts:
Italy tests the dead, if positive for the Wuhan virus, a death is
automatically recorded as CAUSED by it. There is no second category 'tested
Wuhan positive, but other, or unknown, cause of death.'
Source: Agnello Borelli, Head of Civil Protection of Italy.

Wash your hands and bikes, shave your stupid beards, and wear your masks, NY
"Corona Courier" messengers!
https://datagraver.com/thumbs/1300x1...-mil2-2703.png


Hmmm... if I had to guess at factors correlated to a low rate of
infection, it would be:
1) Government decides to do something about it
2) People in country actually follow government orders

Strike 2, USA. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of fast spreading viral
infections.�

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.


Some Governors did and some have (yet?) not and there are
also various policies in between. Be sure to hang around
until 2023 or so when we report their scores.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 10:45:42 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.

You so easily are willing to have your own Big Brother. Tell us how staying at home or practicing social distancing does anything with the very obvious 30% exposure rating?

I suggest that you forget the panic. Remember the news game from the old days, "If it bleeds, it leads." Today a more accurate summation of the Lame Stream Media is "If it bleeds, blame it on Trump".

AMuzi wrote:
On 3/29/2020 12:45 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:04:13 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Sepp Ruf wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 21:39:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 7:03:18 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 9:58:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/27/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 17:07:41 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote:

Turns out that in Italy with 9,134 deaths they only indicate
that 600 of them are due to Covid-19 and the rest of them to
pre-existing health condition which were exacerbated by the
virus and the crummy Italian socialized medical system could
not deal with.

The US now has the supposed highest number of "confirmed
infections". However, they are only testing people over 65 with
certain severe pre-existing health problems so again, the
statistics miss 80% of the infected population. And yet this
still gives us only 1.4% mortality rates.

I finally found a reference to the seasonal flu. It has a 3.83%
mortality rate or 3 times that of Covid-19. Moreover the
seasonal flu kills babies 5 and under and expecting mothers and
mothers who have given birth less than 6 months previous to the
flu. Since there is NO immunity in the entire population to
Covid-19 this is an exceptionally low mortality rate when
compared to the seasonal flu. 80% of the population is
vaccinated yearly for the flu and most of the population have
at least some immunity to it from previous infections.

According to the moronic Great Frankini and his pinhead
supporters actual knowledge doesn't count for anything; fear
and loathing is everything.

Don't worry Frankini - the term, "Up your nose with a rubber
hose" will hold an entirely new meaning for you after this
raging murderous plague has passed.

As usual Tommy has missed the mark. His assertion that only 600
deaths in Italy are due to the virus is somewhat at odds with
what the Italian Government has announced - that (Last updated:
March 28, 2020, 01:23 GMT) there have been 9,134 deaths due to
the virus.

I leave it up to the individual whether he/she/it believes Tom,
or the Government of Italy.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries As for
mortality rate, it is too early to actually calculate but of the
435,949 Currently Infected Patients some 23,519 (5%) are
classified Serious or Critical. Of the 160,400 cases which had
an outcome some 133,057 (83%) were classified as Recovered /
Discharged and 27,343 (17%) died.

Again, I leave it up to the individual whether he/she/it believes
Tom, or a somewhat more authoritative source.

That's funny! Credibility of The Italian Government! Now there's a
low bar.

Yes, I can see why the Italian government might lie just to make Tom
look bad.

- Frank Krygowski

Or you can post lies repeatedly to make anyone else look bad. You're
sort of an equal opportunity jerk. Hey, we can't help it if you don't
have any friends.

"Age, however, doesn’t tell the whole story about who is at risk of
severe disease. In fact, it reveals the underlying vulnerabilities in
the wider population to an illness like Covid-19. Many of these factors
are concentrated among older adults, but younger people with certain
underlying health problems are also at risk. (Sixty percent of
Americans have at least one chronic condition; 40 percent have more
than one.) "

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/211737...lderly-seniors

It's coming to get you - even the Great Frankini.
I find it interesting that above you state that , "Turns out that in
Italy with 9,134 deaths they only indicate that 600 of them are due to
Covid-1" and now after I point out that this is a lie you now change your
tune and sing a wholly different song.

Back to facts:
Italy tests the dead, if positive for the Wuhan virus, a death is
automatically recorded as CAUSED by it. There is no second category 'tested
Wuhan positive, but other, or unknown, cause of death.'
Source: Agnello Borelli, Head of Civil Protection of Italy.

Wash your hands and bikes, shave your stupid beards, and wear your masks, NY
"Corona Courier" messengers!
https://datagraver.com/thumbs/1300x1...-mil2-2703.png


Hmmm... if I had to guess at factors correlated to a low rate of
infection, it would be:
1) Government decides to do something about it
2) People in country actually follow government orders

Strike 2, USA. “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of fast spreading viral
infections.�

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.


Some Governors did and some have (yet?) not and there are
also various policies in between. Be sure to hang around
until 2023 or so when we report their scores.


There MIGHT be some additional clarity in hindsight. I hope so.

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 10:45:42 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.

You so easily are willing to have your own Big Brother. Tell us how
staying at home or practicing social distancing does anything with the
very obvious 30% exposure rating?

I suggest that you forget the panic. Remember the news game from the old
days, "If it bleeds, it leads." Today a more accurate summation of the
Lame Stream Media is "If it bleeds, blame it on Trump".



I don’t think I can answer your question on the value of social distancing,
Tom. Not because I do not believe that avoiding people during a pandemic is
a bad thing, but because I can’t fathom a line of reasoning that would make
this new (to you) concept gain any traction in your head.

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 9:15:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 6:15 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
snip

In January, our President stopped inbound travel from China
before any other nation did so. Why didn't Congress act?
Because they were rabidly engaged with their failed witch hunt.

The legislative branch does not run the CDC, NIH, FEMA and all the agencies that provide emergency response. Congress does not manage strategic reserves. It can't nationalize industries. It can't restrict travel without passing new laws. So, in the face of impending disaster, the executive branch has a lot to do -- much of it logistical. The same is true on a state level.. The governors are running the show through executive orders, and the legislatures are providing funding and a legal frame work for delivering economic assistance.

This administration did a less than stellar job with messaging and logistics and continues to do a poor job with logistics.

Omniscience is denied humans. Compare anything Commie Bill
DiBlasio said this week with his early March comments about
going to dinner in Chinatown and encouraging others to do
so. Even Yogi Berra knew that 'it's hard to make
predictions, especially about the future."

Shame on him, but constantly pointing to other idiots doesn't make it better.

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:54:20 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 10:45:42 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.

You so easily are willing to have your own Big Brother. Tell us how
staying at home or practicing social distancing does anything with the
very obvious 30% exposure rating?

I suggest that you forget the panic. Remember the news game from the old
days, "If it bleeds, it leads." Today a more accurate summation of the
Lame Stream Media is "If it bleeds, blame it on Trump".



I don’t think I can answer your question on the value of social distancing,
Tom. Not because I do not believe that avoiding people during a pandemic is
a bad thing, but because I can’t fathom a line of reasoning that would make
this new (to you) concept gain any traction in your head.

Ralph, I am trying to get it through to people that most people have already been exposed to this or will even with social distancing. It is plain in the grocery store that everyone has touched all the produce and the jars and cans of goods. Do you not understand that those are perfect carriers? And then you get up to the counters and they have 6' apart "social distancing".. I have to keep from laughing.

Remember that this is a corona virus and so is the four different varieties of rhino viruses that cause the common cold. I imagine that most people's immune system can recognize and fight this thing without any effort.

We don't have any real information so you and I can only make guesses as to the actual mortality rate but I am willing to bet that it is significantly below 1%. I saw the mortality rate for influenza the other day and it is a known quantity and they said it was 3.83%.

My entire point on this subject is to halt the panic and start a little more calm consideration.

And what I'm seeing is people saying that they WANT to be panicked and run around in circles screaming because it is so effective at protecting them.

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 12:45:43 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 9:15:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 6:15 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
snip

In January, our President stopped inbound travel from China
before any other nation did so. Why didn't Congress act?
Because they were rabidly engaged with their failed witch hunt.

The legislative branch does not run the CDC, NIH, FEMA and all the agencies that provide emergency response. Congress does not manage strategic reserves. It can't nationalize industries. It can't restrict travel without passing new laws. So, in the face of impending disaster, the executive branch has a lot to do -- much of it logistical. The same is true on a state level. The governors are running the show through executive orders, and the legislatures are providing funding and a legal frame work for delivering economic assistance.

This administration did a less than stellar job with messaging and logistics and continues to do a poor job with logistics.

Omniscience is denied humans. Compare anything Commie Bill
DiBlasio said this week with his early March comments about
going to dinner in Chinatown and encouraging others to do
so. Even Yogi Berra knew that 'it's hard to make
predictions, especially about the future."

Shame on him, but constantly pointing to other idiots doesn't make it better.


The police powers of Governors are much stronger than
anything the President can do. They acted much later,
rightly or wrongly, and not all in the same way. Which are
correct and which have erred? We'll know in a few years but
not this afternoon.

Yes and no. Governors are not equipped to respond to national disasters. That's why we have federal agencies that help with a coordinated response.. Governors cannot restrict national and international travel. They cannot coordinate the nation's supply of respirators or move Navy hospital ships on to the coasts. They can activate national guards and take other measures (like all the shelter in place orders), but they cant' make vaccines or do all the things the NIH and CDC can, and they can't federalize industries, assuming anyone can.


As I asked Mr McNamara, what would you have him do? Given
limited knowledge and the time scale, he did what most agree
was as much as could be done.

Not lie and spend all his time in front of the camera either deflecting or praising himself. We needed FDR and we got John Lovitz doing Tommy Flanagan. Pull the team together, secure supply chains, mobilize the CDC, NIH, get a solid talking head -- Mike Esper would have been a good choice. Be serious and act the part, which is something he can't do -- so he should out source it and not extemporize in front of the camera about Chloroquine or mean correspondents asking bad questions. A good chief of staff would have managed this.

-- Jay Beattie.

No, but Congress CAN call up the money for emergency reserves. Why did it take so long and why did the President have to work so hard to try to calm people when the Lame Stream Media and the Democrats have been doing everything they can to incite panic and fear.

FDR for one of his first acts in office fired all of the black civil service employees and hired whites in their stead. He froze all Chinese immigration and at that time China was an ally of ours. Later he put Americans of Japanese descent into concetration camps so that his white donors could buy up all of their goods and land at fire sale prices. FDR did NOT offer much help at all to Great Britain and they fought the battle of Britain virtually alone. It wasn't until Pearl Harbor when he had no other options that we went to war.

I do not think that FDR is a role model for anyone.

States are supposed to have their OWN emergency supplies of medical necessities and it has been that way since the cold war. It would be impossible for the federal government to have safe storage of emergency medical supplies and be able to get them to a state quickly. And even if they do it is STILL the responsibility of the state government to see them properly distributed. Turn your brain on again.

It absolutely IS the responsibility of the President to try and calm the panicked people that the DNC and the Lame Stream Media have been attempting to use to political benefit. It is also his responsibility to have other medical advice than that from Fauci who has been quoted everywhere as saying that we are going to have 10 million dead before this is done. THAT is not the case. Only 64 million of the population of this country are in the age bracket that is most at risk. 80% of those will not have symptoms. Our testing in this area is STILL on only those that are in the most at risk age group so the numbers of "confirmed cases" are only those that show symptoms. And only 3% of that most at risk group are dying. Those numbers are 3.2 million showing bad to serious symptoms and a worst case scenario of slightly less than 100,000 dead. Fauci is someone you respect?

This would be entirely without any treatment. We presently have three forms of treatment all of which look very promising. The Hydroquinone combined with an antibiotic causes regression in just hours in many cases. Doctors in hospitals are not taking it as a prophylaxis. One of the AIDS medications is an extremely powerful antiviral. You only need to slow this infection down for a couple of hours and the body gets a head start. Finally plasma donated by people who have fully recovered have immune cells in it that is especially effective in the early stages of the infection. Since we can now confirm cases in 15 minutes that is a very powerful tool.

I have no idea where you're coming from Jay. All you have to do is look at the job that Trump has been doing. Every person in this country including illegal aliens have benefitted from his Presidency. The only people who haven't are the Democrats and the Deep State who have seen their power eroded. And shouldn't that be so? In what world should some unelected member of some abstruse department of the Federal Government be able to put you ought of business or fine you without any authority other than his own?

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:54:20 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 10:45:42 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.

You so easily are willing to have your own Big Brother. Tell us how
staying at home or practicing social distancing does anything with the
very obvious 30% exposure rating?

I suggest that you forget the panic. Remember the news game from the old
days, "If it bleeds, it leads." Today a more accurate summation of the
Lame Stream Media is "If it bleeds, blame it on Trump".



I don’t think I can answer your question on the value of social distancing,
Tom. Not because I do not believe that avoiding people during a pandemic is
a bad thing, but because I can’t fathom a line of reasoning that would make
this new (to you) concept gain any traction in your head.

Ralph, I am trying to get it through to people that most people have
already been exposed to this or will even with social distancing. It is
plain in the grocery store that everyone has touched all the produce and
the jars and cans of goods. Do you not understand that those are perfect
carriers? And then you get up to the counters and they have 6' apart
"social distancing". I have to keep from laughing.

Remember that this is a corona virus and so is the four different
varieties of rhino viruses that cause the common cold. I imagine that
most people's immune system can recognize and fight this thing without any effort.

We don't have any real information so you and I can only make guesses as
to the actual mortality rate but I am willing to bet that it is
significantly below 1%. I saw the mortality rate for influenza the other
day and it is a known quantity and they said it was 3.83%.

My entire point on this subject is to halt the panic and start a little
more calm consideration.

And what I'm seeing is people saying that they WANT to be panicked and
run around in circles screaming because it is so effective at protecting them.


I really do want you to be right about this, but so far, the data I’ve seen
hasn’t conclusively proved it one way or the other. We need to start doing
testing of random citizens for COVID-19 antibodies. If those numbers come
up over 50% then Tom is right and we can all chill out a bit. However, if
the number comes in close to zero, then what we’re doing now is the right
(albeit belated approach). You’re basing your approach on tacit knowledge
and intuition and I’m not opposed to that (I built a reputation as a guy
who could pull off long shot predictions with a substantially higher than
expected success rate), but when the stakes are this high, I wanna see the
numbers.

On 3/29/2020 5:47 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:54:20 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 10:45:42 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

What do you think that the government can do?


Tell everybody who possibly can to stay the **** at home.

You so easily are willing to have your own Big Brother. Tell us how
staying at home or practicing social distancing does anything with the
very obvious 30% exposure rating?

I suggest that you forget the panic. Remember the news game from the old
days, "If it bleeds, it leads." Today a more accurate summation of the
Lame Stream Media is "If it bleeds, blame it on Trump".



I don’t think I can answer your question on the value of social distancing,
Tom. Not because I do not believe that avoiding people during a pandemic is
a bad thing, but because I can’t fathom a line of reasoning that would make
this new (to you) concept gain any traction in your head.

Ralph, I am trying to get it through to people that most people have
already been exposed to this or will even with social distancing. It is
plain in the grocery store that everyone has touched all the produce and
the jars and cans of goods. Do you not understand that those are perfect
carriers? And then you get up to the counters and they have 6' apart
"social distancing". I have to keep from laughing.

Remember that this is a corona virus and so is the four different
varieties of rhino viruses that cause the common cold. I imagine that
most people's immune system can recognize and fight this thing without any effort.

We don't have any real information so you and I can only make guesses as
to the actual mortality rate but I am willing to bet that it is
significantly below 1%. I saw the mortality rate for influenza the other
day and it is a known quantity and they said it was 3.83%.

My entire point on this subject is to halt the panic and start a little
more calm consideration.

And what I'm seeing is people saying that they WANT to be panicked and
run around in circles screaming because it is so effective at protecting them.


I really do want you to be right about this, but so far, the data I’ve seen
hasn’t conclusively proved it one way or the other. We need to start doing
testing of random citizens for COVID-19 antibodies. If those numbers come
up over 50% then Tom is right and we can all chill out a bit. However, if
the number comes in close to zero, then what we’re doing now is the right
(albeit belated approach). You’re basing your approach on tacit knowledge
and intuition and I’m not opposed to that (I built a reputation as a guy
who could pull off long shot predictions with a substantially higher than
expected success rate), but when the stakes are this high, I wanna see the
numbers.


+1
I agree; can't wait to know actual numbers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/29/2020 11:55 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/28/2020 5:36 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:59:10 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/26/2020 3:23 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 09:23:43 +0700, John B
wrote:

As for "hair on fire"... hardly :-)

"Hair on fire" is Fox Newsspeak for anyone saying they don't think
Trump is the Greatest President in Human history, especially
criticism based on what Trump actually says instead of what he and
his supporters pretend he said.Â* Covfefe!Â* It was a perfect call!
And you should believe Vladimir over American intelligence
professionals, he only has our best interests at heart.


I take no position as it's very early in this thing. Too early for an
afternoon of tea and medals, too early to hang the inept.

But I did note the hue and cry about 'fascism' when we were the first
country to restrict travel from China in January.

The concerns about fascism predated COVID-19 by several years.


But the Chinese virus is actually real.

I thought it was an Italian virus now.

--
- Frank Krygowski