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#81
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On 8/6/2019 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isツ a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineツ murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645 Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Machete murders were once big news. Now we have a term for that, "Tuesday": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...17&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...8&t=h_&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...19&t=h_&ia=web Readers of delicate countenance should not click "images" on the search menu. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#82
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On 8/6/2019 2:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2019 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isテつ* a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineテつ* murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645ツ* Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Machete murders were once big news. Now we have a term for that, "Tuesday": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...17&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...8&t=h_&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...19&t=h_&ia=web Readers of delicate countenance should not click "images" on the search menu. Anyone know the annual count of U.S. machete killings? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#83
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On 8/6/2019 1:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/6/2019 2:09 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/6/2019 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isテつ a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineテつ murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645ツ Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Machete murders were once big news. Now we have a term for that, "Tuesday": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...17&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...8&t=h_&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...19&t=h_&ia=web Readers of delicate countenance should not click "images" on the search menu. Anyone know the annual count of U.S. machete killings? No idea but I'm sure each and every victim thought there was one too many. If we're doing this by numbers alone now, I'll watch for your impassioned pleas about medical ineptitude and hospital-acquired infection which kill more people than either car wrecks or ODs. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#84
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:46:19 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife is* a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to define* murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645 Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Yes. If one really wants to commit mass murder one can find a way. Or rather the shortage of firearms has not, historically, prevented mass killings. -- Cheers, John B. |
#85
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:34:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 8/6/2019 2:09 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/6/2019 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isツ* a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineツ* murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645* Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Machete murders were once big news. Now we have a term for that, "Tuesday": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...17&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...8&t=h_&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...19&t=h_&ia=web Readers of delicate countenance should not click "images" on the search menu. Anyone know the annual count of U.S. machete killings? A nice end run around the facts. Rather a "Tom" effort. But referring to Mass Murders, would you care to be a bit more explicit, particularly about firearm "mass killings"? My own readings show that mass killings with firearms are pretty low scale killings. And I did look up "mass killings" on the Internet and found the terrifying results of some 25 "mass murders" the largest of which was 58 deaths. The Oklahoma City killings, carried out with fertilizer and diesel fuel, killed 168 individuals and injured another 680. So, the question arises, is it the fact that a large number of people were killed that upsets you? Or is it because that those devil instruments of death, firearms, were used in the killing of relatively few people? -- Cheers, John B. |
#86
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:27:11 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 11:10:42 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 4:25:04 PM UTC-4, wrote: ... you can try not to respond to every helmet post. It took you less than 30 min for your first respond to the original post and after that another 8 posts of your usual same old same old. Do you have an algorithm running in the background scanning the word helmet and get a notification on you smartphone? Hey you are talking to us we can think for ourselves. What is that obsession of yours about helmets? You don't wear one? OK. No one is forcing you. Have a nice day. Lou Good grief, what is YOUR obsession with what I choose to discuss? You don't have to read about helmets, OK? No one is forcing you. Have a nice day. (Oh, BTW: [snipped, another boring iteration of Frank Krygowski's antiphelmet hysteria]) - Frank Krygowski Franki-boy's hysterical upper-case screeching in reaction to an ever-polite poster asking for some surcease from the relentless barrage of Franki-boy's nauseatingly smug anti-helmet zealotry is in-your-face hypocrisy. This is the same Frank Krygowski who a couple of days ago sent several missives hounding me for posting on RBT, apparently on the ground that anyone with friends or interests elsewhere should not be permitted to post on RBT, leaving it pure for only the lonely, the friendless and those too dull even to find a hobby. However well that describes Frank Krygowski, it doesn't describe me. Does it describe you? Ande Jute Just asking what's a felmet? |
#87
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On 8/6/2019 7:43 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:34:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/6/2019 2:09 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/6/2019 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isテつ* a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineテつ* murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645ツ* Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Machete murders were once big news. Now we have a term for that, "Tuesday": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...17&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...8&t=h_&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...19&t=h_&ia=web Readers of delicate countenance should not click "images" on the search menu. Anyone know the annual count of U.S. machete killings? A nice end run around the facts. Rather a "Tom" effort. Geez, nobody will answer a question any more! But what facts do you think I'm avoiding? It seems to be a fact that guns are used in far, far more murders than knives or machetes. (Feel free to correct me if you do find that machete number.) What other facts are you using? But referring to Mass Murders, would you care to be a bit more explicit, particularly about firearm "mass killings"? My own readings show that mass killings with firearms are pretty low scale killings. OK, "pretty low scale" on exactly what scale? And I did look up "mass killings" on the Internet and found the terrifying results of some 25 "mass murders" the largest of which was 58 deaths. It seems hard to find info on "mass killings" without getting sidetracked into mass shootings. But this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States does give counts of those killed (not just shot). Unfortunately, it omits machete deaths. Why, oh why? There's this, which can be sorted by date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States It doesn't explicitly list the weapons used very often. But guns, shooters, etc. seem to be used in almost all of the modern ones. The Oklahoma City killings, carried out with fertilizer and diesel fuel, killed 168 individuals and injured another 680. So, the question arises, is it the fact that a large number of people were killed that upsets you? Actually, I don't like it when just one or two people are murdered either. I admit it, I'm anti-murder in general. I'm sure I'd be upset by a bunch of machete murders if I found out there really were many of them. Or is it because that those devil instruments of death, firearms, were used in the killing of relatively few people? I think there are very few people who object to killing a bunch of people by use of rapid fire guns, but who are just fine with killing people with bombs. Do you know anyone who makes that distinction? -- - Frank Krygowski |
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On 8/6/2019 3:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2019 1:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/6/2019 2:09 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/6/2019 12:46 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isテつ* a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineテつ* murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645ツ* Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Machete murders were once big news. Now we have a term for that, "Tuesday": https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...17&t=h_&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...8&t=h_&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=machete+mu...19&t=h_&ia=web Readers of delicate countenance should not click "images" on the search menu. Anyone know the annual count of U.S. machete killings? No idea but I'm sure each and every victim thought there was one too many. If we're doing this by numbers alone now, I'll watch for your impassioned pleas about medical ineptitude and hospital-acquired infection which kill more people than either car wrecks or ODs. The ultimate step in that line of argument would be this: "Murderers should not be prosecuted, because everyone is going to die anyway." -- - Frank Krygowski |
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 1:07:54 AM UTC+1, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 5:27:11 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote: On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 11:10:42 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 4:25:04 PM UTC-4, wrote: ... you can try not to respond to every helmet post. It took you less than 30 min for your first respond to the original post and after that another 8 posts of your usual same old same old. Do you have an algorithm running in the background scanning the word helmet and get a notification on you smartphone? Hey you are talking to us we can think for ourselves. What is that obsession of yours about helmets? You don't wear one? OK. No one is forcing you. Have a nice day. Lou Good grief, what is YOUR obsession with what I choose to discuss? You don't have to read about helmets, OK? No one is forcing you. Have a nice day. (Oh, BTW: [snipped, another boring iteration of Frank Krygowski's antiphelmet hysteria]) - Frank Krygowski Franki-boy's hysterical upper-case screeching in reaction to an ever-polite poster asking for some surcease from the relentless barrage of Franki-boy's nauseatingly smug anti-helmet zealotry is in-your-face hypocrisy. This is the same Frank Krygowski who a couple of days ago sent several missives hounding me for posting on RBT, apparently on the ground that anyone with friends or interests elsewhere should not be permitted to post on RBT, leaving it pure for only the lonely, the friendless and those too dull even to find a hobby. However well that describes Frank Krygowski, it doesn't describe me. Does it describe you? Ande Jute Just asking what's a felmet? Can't help you, Doug. The only place "helmet" appears is in your question. I also see "antiphelmet", which is clearly a typo, though, if you are dictating rather than typing your post, I suppose "felmet" might be a phonetic rendering of "phelmet". Did you know that George Bernard Shaw left his fortune to the establishment and propagation of a phonetic alphabet? Andre Jute If the pot calls the kettle black, it might be smart first to apply a soot-meter |
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Trek/Bontrager Wavecell Technology Helmets
On 8/6/2019 7:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:46:19 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. Slocomb writes: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 12:23 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/5/2019 9:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/5/2019 4:07 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 00:13:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 8:47 PM, John B. wrote: rOn Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:06:33 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/4/2019 1:37 AM, John B. wrote: Well, of course. After all everybody knows that "guns kill" so logically if there no guns there would be no "killed". I don't know of anyone who seriously believes that. But to be more realistic: What are the gun laws in the country where you now live? And what's the gun murder rate per 100,000? What's the total murder rate per 100,000? IOW, how are your gun laws working out? The gun laws in Thailand are essentially that guns are banned... except in some cases. You can't legally carry a pistol in your pocket in Bangkok but no one will object to your having a shotgun over our shoulder in some remote jungle area where wildlife isツ* a danger. Yes, nobody much objects to long guns in the woods here. But "can't legally carry a pistol in a pocket"? Some here would say that's akin to slicing off a man's ... um, masculinity. (And it's true that some men seem to confuse their guns with their genital organs.) As for gun deaths it would be rather misleading to quote them as the UNODC murder rate in Thailand is 3.24/100,000 and in the U.S. 5.30/100,000 so obviously whatever criteria you care to defineツ* murder rates in the U.S. will likely be higher than in Thailand. Ah. 3.24 vs. 5.30. But you don't think the differences in gun laws are a factor? I was pointing out that the table I saw was based on UNODC rates. But I'm not sure whether gun laws, specifically, are really a factor in Thai homicide rates. Certainly the news is full of knife, club, whatever, (even by hand), murders and illegal ownership of firearms is extremely common so I'm not sure what effect the rather strict gun laws in Thailand have on homicide rates. As an aside I might mention that the CDC homicide numbers in the U.S. seem to be all - homicides - 19,510, Firearms - 14,542 so about 75% of homicides in the U.S. age gun related. But! According to the Centers for Disease Control, using data available for analysis on September 5, 2018, there were a reported 70,652 deaths attributed to drug overdose in the US for the year ending December 2017. Some deaths were still under investigation. The CDC projects that the total for 2017 will be 72,222. It makes the 14,542 gun deaths seem a bit.... well one might say somewhat less than urgent :-) According to Statistia some 43% of U.S. households owned one or more guns in 2017. That is (I believe) some 126,220,000 households with guns and 14,000 gun deaths (not, I believe, including self inflected death) or a rate of 1 gun death per 9,015.7 households. And Auto Deaths? Some 37,133 deaths in 2017 - the same year as the 14,000 gun deaths. Or one traffic death per 3,399 families. But than, we all know that they are "traffic accidents", which seem to be acceptable and "GUN DEATHS!" which are horrifying. We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live? You seem to be "proving" my stated point that "guns kill", unless of course then guys in Texas were waving swords. You seem to be sidestepping my question. How often _does_ that happen where you live? Well, I gave you the figures, about 61% of the U.S. numbers. No, John, you didn't give me the numbers I asked for. Nice try at sidestepping, though. Here was my question: "We just had two mass murders within about half a day, one in Texas, the next in Ohio. Does that happen a lot where you live?" And I repeated: "How often _does_ that happen where you live?" I'm not surprised you have occasional killings using knives, clubs and hands, as you describe. But how many _mass_ killings? How many instances of a guy with a knife quickly slaying, say, 20 people who were shopping and injuring a couple dozen more? I don't know from Thailand but in Chicago it's all day every day: https://maggionews.com/ https://heyjackass.com/ I see very few reports of mass killings using knives. Well, of course not. these are modern times and modern man is too lazy to undertake "mass killings" with a butcher knife but in years gone my, when man kind was a bit more energetic... For example: In the year 390 when Roman Emperor Theodosius I sent troops to Thessalonica in order to quell some civil unrest. and 7,000 were killed. On May 20, 1645 Qing troops led by Prince Dodo of the Qing Dynasty killed as many as 80,000 people. Machetes were prominent during the Rwandan genocide much more recently. Yes. If one really wants to commit mass murder one can find a way. Or rather the shortage of firearms has not, historically, prevented mass killings. No rational person can claim that the availability rapid fire guns hasn't made mass killings far easier. And the 2nd amendment was written at a time when rapid fire guns didn't exist. Check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4 especially the last bit, from about 6:50 to 7:44 -- - Frank Krygowski |
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