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#1401
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
On 7 Mar, 17:44, wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:55*pm, Tom Sherman wrote: "jeffreybike" wrote: Is there any real difference between 23mm and 25mm tires as far as speed. Will 2mm make you that slower or faster? thanks, Jeff Should have skipped the thanks, since no good answer has been provided as of yet. Bad questions reap a bountiful harvest of bad answers, and predicating it on a false dichotomy is like slowly moving upstream with a long line of hooks out. The answer is 35. How many spokes are needed to finish a road race. TJ |
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#1402
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 07:03:57 -0800 (PST), Bret
wrote: That sounds like the same race. The finish was at the Snowshed lodge which was on a flat section above a steep pitch but short of the top. Event Services under exposed their film for the 3's finish and didn't have a backup plan. They knew I had won but couldn't figure out the rest. The officials just stalled until everyone left. I waited for about five hours before giving up. I left after about two hours. That race would have been easy to pick with a few people and tape recorders. Would take a long time to transcribe (considering there were hundreds of riders in all fields) but not complicated. The results that were eventually produced were protested by mail. I think I finally got a check months later and it bounced. I had a love/hate thing with Killington. Here's a bunch of pictures from it in it's last few years http://www.jt10000.com/team/tgal/gal17.htm http://www.jt10000.com/team/tgal/gal03.htm |
#1403
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:49:46 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote: OK, then. Prove it. You keep making these assertions without backing them up with any facts. Provide us with facts. Your continual "is too" approach is not convincing. Chung provided stats. Sandy provided stats on power and tires. The closest "proof" I can provide is practice -- what is done. By thousands of people. Do you apply the same sort of skeptism in other aspects of your life? For something you don't have data on but the vast majority of people do it one way that's differen than, say, 25 years ago, and you keep doing it the old way just because of the lack of non-experiential evidence? Really? |
#1404
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 12:17:28 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote: I am- I hope- being logically rigorous Hahahaha. |
#1405
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
Tim McNamara wrote:
-much snip- Psychology plays a role, too- for example, I have never been driven by the need to win. When I got beaten in a sprint, for example, it didn't really bother me. People who win a lot of bike races are usually driven by that need (interestingly enough, though, that doesn't necessarily bleed into other aspects of their personality. One of the best local racers here is also one of the nicest and most helpful guys you could ever meet. But he'll blow your doors off in a race). -snip- I've known a lot of bike racers over the years, many combative and feisty, but the champions are all quite gentlemanly off the course. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#1406
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
On Mar 7, 12:21*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 07:03:57 -0800 (PST), Bret wrote: That sounds like the same race. The finish was at the Snowshed lodge which was on a flat section above a steep pitch but short of the top. Event Services under exposed their film for the 3's finish and didn't have a backup plan. They knew I had won but couldn't figure out the rest. The officials just stalled until everyone left. I waited for about five hours before giving up. I left after about two hours. That race would have been easy to pick with a few people and tape recorders. *Would take a long time to transcribe (considering there were hundreds of riders in all fields) but not complicated. The results that were eventually produced were protested by mail. I think I finally got a check months later and it bounced. I had a love/hate thing with Killington. Their motto was "we're not a professional race organization". The year I won the prologue, they never posted results after the first RR stage. I didn't wear the race leader jersey in the 2nd RR stage because I had no idea who took the time bonuses in stage 1 and I didn't want to show up in the jersey only to find out I wasn't actually leader anymore. At the line the starter said, "where's the race leader"? I said "you never posted results". He said, "we're not a professional race organization". I said, "did you think I was going to figure it out on my own"? But I really liked that race and did it four times Here's a bunch of pictures from it in it's last few yearshttp://www.jt10000.com/team/tgal/gal17.htmhttp://www.jt10000.com/team/tgal/gal03.htm Good pictures. Bret |
#1407
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
On Mar 7, 10:48*am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , *Bret wrote: On Mar 6, 8:48*am, Tim McNamara wrote: In article , *Bret wrote: On Mar 5, 7:31*pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article om, *Bret wrote: On Mar 4, 5:54*pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article ps.c om, *Bret wrote: On Mar 3, 5:27*pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article roup s.co m, *Bret wrote: If you have the physical ability Bingo. *The key to racing success. *That and tactics. I believe that there are key moments where the bike can make a difference. Frank dodged that part of my post. "Believe" being the operative word. *As Ben has pointed out very well, it can't be proven. Another example, in a mountain road race I once summited Wolf Creek pass, an eight mile climb, well down on the race leaders, but only 20 seconds down on a strong chase group that eventually rolled up everyone in front of them. It wouldn't have taken much of a difference for me to have been at the front of that race. It often seems like the guys who beat us do so by that 1% gap which we *ought* to be able to overcome with a lighter bike, or a little more training, etc. *It's often a self-delusion. *The guys who beat us ride just hard enough to beat us- there being no reason to ride harder than that- but might have 15% capacity left untapped while we are at 100%. This is not true in a photo finish situation. Both riders will be at 100% unless one has misjudge the finish. Which are rare except in professional cycling, and even then the winning rider may be at 101% of his competitor's capacity and have 10% of his own left in reserve. *Erik Zabel could outsprint me with one foot unclipped and keeping 50% of his reserve in a photo finish. I don't see any logic to what you are saying here. Nobody intentionally leaves a race finish that close. Ask Beppe. Unless someone is serving their ego, there's no reason to expend any more energy than necessary. *I've been in and seen plenty of races where the winner basically cruises home while everybody else is killing themselves. *Winning a crit by 30 seconds is not "more win" than winning it by 1 second. Stage racing where the GC is determined by time changes the calculus on that, of course. *But people racing for stage wins and people racing for GC have different strategies. You seem to have lost track of what we were talking about. A 1 second win is not very close in the context of this discussion. The principle holds, Bret, if we are talking about a half a wheel versus 10 bike lengths. *There's no reason to expend more energy than necessary. *In head-to-head-the-strongest-one-wins scenarios, it's quite possible that the winner has much more in reserve than the loser. I was talking about photo finishes where the difference is less than 2 cm. I've been in that situation at least six times and there is no room for holding back. Half a wheel is a very different situation. A 1 second difference is almost 18 meters at 40 mph. Bret |
#1408
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
In article ,
Tim McNamara wrote: It's all stochastic, man. No, it is not. -- Michael Press |
#1409
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
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#1410
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700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
In article
, Bret wrote: On Mar 7, 10:48*am, Tim McNamara wrote: In article , *Bret wrote: On Mar 6, 8:48*am, Tim McNamara wrote: In article om, *Bret wrote: On Mar 5, 7:31*pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article ps.c om, *Bret wrote: On Mar 4, 5:54*pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article grou ps.c om, *Bret wrote: On Mar 3, 5:27*pm, Tim McNamara wrote: In article gleg roup s.co m, *Bret wrote: If you have the physical ability Bingo. *The key to racing success. *That and tactics. I believe that there are key moments where the bike can make a difference. Frank dodged that part of my post. "Believe" being the operative word. *As Ben has pointed out very well, it can't be proven. Another example, in a mountain road race I once summited Wolf Creek pass, an eight mile climb, well down on the race leaders, but only 20 seconds down on a strong chase group that eventually rolled up everyone in front of them. It wouldn't have taken much of a difference for me to have been at the front of that race. It often seems like the guys who beat us do so by that 1% gap which we *ought* to be able to overcome with a lighter bike, or a little more training, etc. *It's often a self-delusion. *The guys who beat us ride just hard enough to beat us- there being no reason to ride harder than that- but might have 15% capacity left untapped while we are at 100%. This is not true in a photo finish situation. Both riders will be at 100% unless one has misjudge the finish. Which are rare except in professional cycling, and even then the winning rider may be at 101% of his competitor's capacity and have 10% of his own left in reserve. *Erik Zabel could outsprint me with one foot unclipped and keeping 50% of his reserve in a photo finish. I don't see any logic to what you are saying here. Nobody intentionally leaves a race finish that close. Ask Beppe. Unless someone is serving their ego, there's no reason to expend any more energy than necessary. *I've been in and seen plenty of races where the winner basically cruises home while everybody else is killing themselves. *Winning a crit by 30 seconds is not "more win" than winning it by 1 second. Stage racing where the GC is determined by time changes the calculus on that, of course. *But people racing for stage wins and people racing for GC have different strategies. You seem to have lost track of what we were talking about. A 1 second win is not very close in the context of this discussion. The principle holds, Bret, if we are talking about a half a wheel versus 10 bike lengths. *There's no reason to expend more energy than necessary. *In head-to-head-the-strongest-one-wins scenarios, it's quite possible that the winner has much more in reserve than the loser. I was talking about photo finishes where the difference is less than 2 cm. I've been in that situation at least six times and there is no room for holding back. In that scenario that is reasonable. Half a wheel is a very different situation. A 1 second difference is almost 18 meters at 40 mph. Yup. In amateur racing, though, 40 mph sprints are not all that common as most race organizers create courses that don't allow it. |
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