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  #1  
Old July 24th 08, 12:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bill C
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Posts: 3,199
Default Suicidal cycling

From the NYT:

http://tinyurl.com/6sx7gh

In their search for that witness, federal prosecutors have focused on
Houston, Clemens’s hometown. And although it was not known whether
investigators there had established any new links to Clemens, the
lawyer said they had uncovered evidence connecting several other major
leaguers to the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

It was not clear how strong the evidence was or how many of these
players were active. But federal authorities may question those
individuals, the lawyer said, seeking to establish what knowledge they
may have about Clemens and what they may know about drug
distributors.

The lawyer spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want
to jeopardize his access to sensitive information. An official at the
United States attorney’s office for the District of Columbia declined
to comment.

More there.

I know it's beating a dead horse, and baseball is ahrdly a paragon of
virtue, but what does this say about cycling, Wada, ASO, the UCI,
etc... in comparison. May say something about the Times as compared to
L'Equippe too.
No names, no suspended on suspicion, and tried in public before any
real judicial actions, etc...

The other amazing thing, to me, is the lack of journalists digging
into all this, along with the free pass the NBA and it's Ref's and
Commissioner are getting.
I guess the NBA stuff is similar to the UCI/Wada press stuff, they've
buddied up to, and leaked tons of **** to the press so it's damned
near impossible to find anyone really questioning the leaders of these
groups and their actions. You'd never even know there were real
questions about their behavior from the mainstream sporting press.
Not saying it's the Press' fault because it isn't, but they sure as
hell aren't doing a good job either.
Patronage isn't just in the Peleton, eh?
Bill C
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  #2  
Old July 24th 08, 01:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,322
Default Suicidal cycling

On Jul 23, 6:32*pm, Bill C wrote:
From the NYT:

http://tinyurl.com/6sx7gh

In their search for that witness, federal prosecutors have focused on
Houston, Clemens’s hometown. And although it was not known whether
investigators there had established any new links to Clemens, the
lawyer said they had uncovered evidence connecting several other major
leaguers to the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

It was not clear how strong the evidence was or how many of these
players were active. But federal authorities may question those
individuals, the lawyer said, seeking to establish what knowledge they
may have about Clemens and what they may know about drug
distributors.

The lawyer spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want
to jeopardize his access to sensitive information. An official at the
United States attorney’s office for the District of Columbia declined
to comment.

More there.

I know it's beating a dead horse, and baseball is ahrdly a paragon of
virtue, but what does this say about cycling, Wada, ASO, the UCI,
etc... in comparison. May say something about the Times as compared to
L'Equippe too.
*No names, no suspended on suspicion, and tried in public before any
real judicial actions, etc...

*The other amazing thing, to me, is the lack of journalists digging
into all this, along with the free pass the NBA and it's Ref's and
Commissioner are getting.
*I guess the NBA stuff is similar to the UCI/Wada press stuff, they've
buddied up to, and leaked tons of **** to the press so it's damned
near impossible to find anyone really questioning the leaders of these
groups and their actions. You'd never even know there were real
questions about their behavior from the mainstream sporting press.
*Not saying it's the Press' fault because it isn't, but they sure as
hell aren't doing a good job either.
*Patronage isn't just in the Peleton, eh?


Well, one point that jumps up at me is, baseball isn't going to lose
sponsors at anything like the same rate cycling has.

(It's kinda like omerta, and yeah, it has functional aspects)

Me, I'm torn between wanting the total **** to hit the fan-- long,
long lists of names with phone records, paper trails IRT phone records
and bank records, all of it-- and the major (USA) sports to Find a
Better Way. Not just a Secret Way, either. --D-y
  #3  
Old July 24th 08, 02:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bill C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,199
Default Suicidal cycling

On Jul 23, 8:59*pm, " wrote:


*The other amazing thing, to me, is the lack of journalists digging
into all this, along with the free pass the NBA and it's Ref's and
Commissioner are getting.
*I guess the NBA stuff is similar to the UCI/Wada press stuff, they've
buddied up to, and leaked tons of **** to the press so it's damned
near impossible to find anyone really questioning the leaders of these
groups and their actions. You'd never even know there were real
questions about their behavior from the mainstream sporting press.
*Not saying it's the Press' fault because it isn't, but they sure as
hell aren't doing a good job either.
*Patronage isn't just in the Peleton, eh?


Well, one point that jumps up at me is, baseball isn't going to lose
sponsors at anything like the same rate cycling has.

(It's kinda like omerta, and yeah, it has functional aspects)

Me, I'm torn between wanting the total **** to hit the fan-- long,
long lists of names with phone records, paper trails IRT phone records
and bank records, all of it-- and the major (USA) sports to Find a
Better Way. Not just a Secret Way, either. *--D-y- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The whole thing is just so screwed up, full of double standards,
political games, power plays, etc...everything but basic transparency,
fair treatment, and justice.
Kurgan keeps pointing out that doping is part of our culture, and so
is snafu'd "justice" and enforcement.
Unfortunately it's not just the sporting world that's screwed up.
There're days it just doesn't pay to read the news:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/23/btsc.obrien/index.html

http://tinyurl.com/6lw97v

Both stories just make my blood boil.
Bill C
  #4  
Old July 24th 08, 07:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Suicidal cycling


"Bill C" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
From the NYT:

http://tinyurl.com/6sx7gh

In their search for that witness, federal prosecutors have focused on
Houston, Clemens’s hometown. And although it was not known whether
investigators there had established any new links to Clemens, the
lawyer said they had uncovered evidence connecting several other major
leaguers to the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

It was not clear how strong the evidence was or how many of these
players were active. But federal authorities may question those
individuals, the lawyer said, seeking to establish what knowledge they
may have about Clemens and what they may know about drug
distributors.

The lawyer spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want
to jeopardize his access to sensitive information. An official at the
United States attorney’s office for the District of Columbia declined
to comment.

More there.

I know it's beating a dead horse, and baseball is ahrdly a paragon of
virtue, but what does this say about cycling, Wada, ASO, the UCI,
etc... in comparison. May say something about the Times as compared to
L'Equippe too.
No names, no suspended on suspicion, and tried in public before any
real judicial actions, etc...

----


1- Free press and free speech.
2- The timing also is different I suppose. Remember : During the winter we
have no name of riders because there is nothing urgent.
But during the tour it is urgent to have the name in order to ban the
cheater immediatly.
----

The other amazing thing, to me, is the lack of journalists digging
into all this, along with the free pass the NBA and it's Ref's and
Commissioner are getting.
I guess the NBA stuff is similar to the UCI/Wada press stuff, they've
buddied up to, and leaked tons of **** to the press so it's damned
near impossible to find anyone really questioning the leaders of these
groups and their actions. You'd never even know there were real
questions about their behavior from the mainstream sporting press.
Not saying it's the Press' fault because it isn't, but they sure as
hell aren't doing a good job either.
Patronage isn't just in the Peleton, eh?
Bill C


  #5  
Old July 24th 08, 12:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bill C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,199
Default Suicidal cycling

On Jul 24, 2:19*am, Montesquiou wrote:
"Bill C" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
From the NYT:

http://tinyurl.com/6sx7gh

In their search for that witness, federal prosecutors have focused on
Houston, Clemens’s hometown. And although it was not known whether
investigators there had established any new links to Clemens, the
lawyer said they had uncovered evidence connecting several other major
leaguers to the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

It was not clear how strong the evidence was or how many of these
players were active. But federal authorities may question those
individuals, the lawyer said, seeking to establish what knowledge they
may have about Clemens and what they may know about drug
distributors.

The lawyer spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want
to jeopardize his access to sensitive information. An official at the
United States attorney’s office for the District of Columbia declined
to comment.

More there.

I know it's beating a dead horse, and baseball is ahrdly a paragon of
virtue, but what does this say about cycling, Wada, ASO, the UCI,
etc... in comparison. May say something about the Times as compared to
L'Equippe too.
*No names, no suspended on suspicion, and tried in public before any
real judicial actions, etc...

----

1- Free press and free speech.
2- The timing also is different I suppose. Remember : During the winter we
have no name of riders because there is nothing urgent.
* * *But during the tour it is urgent to have the name in order to ban the
cheater immediatly.
----


Due Process, and there's that little confidentiality bit in the Wada,
and lab codes, but it seems it's only bad when the riders violate the
rules. Glad you support the press volunteering to be a tool for
political usage.
I can only wish the press was free and unbiased, or stated their
biases right up front. That's one of the things I like about The
Guardian. There the editors have said publicly that they aren't there
to be unbiased, they are there to promote an agenda, period. At least
they are honest.
Bill C
  #6  
Old July 24th 08, 02:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 816
Default Suicidal cycling

Bill C wrote:

On Jul 24, 2:19 am, Montesquiou wrote:

"Bill C" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
From the NYT:

http://tinyurl.com/6sx7gh

In their search for that witness, federal prosecutors have focused on
Houston, Clemens’s hometown. And although it was not known whether
investigators there had established any new links to Clemens, the
lawyer said they had uncovered evidence connecting several other major
leaguers to the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

It was not clear how strong the evidence was or how many of these
players were active. But federal authorities may question those
individuals, the lawyer said, seeking to establish what knowledge they
may have about Clemens and what they may know about drug
distributors.

The lawyer spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want
to jeopardize his access to sensitive information. An official at the
United States attorney’s office for the District of Columbia declined
to comment.

More there.

I know it's beating a dead horse, and baseball is ahrdly a paragon of
virtue, but what does this say about cycling, Wada, ASO, the UCI,
etc... in comparison. May say something about the Times as compared to
L'Equippe too.
No names, no suspended on suspicion, and tried in public before any
real judicial actions, etc...

----

1- Free press and free speech.
2- The timing also is different I suppose. Remember : During the winter we
have no name of riders because there is nothing urgent.
But during the tour it is urgent to have the name in order to ban the
cheater immediatly.
----



Due Process, and there's that little confidentiality bit in the Wada,
and lab codes, but it seems it's only bad when the riders violate the
rules. Glad you support the press volunteering to be a tool for
political usage.
I can only wish the press was free and unbiased, or stated their
biases right up front. That's one of the things I like about The
Guardian. There the editors have said publicly that they aren't there
to be unbiased, they are there to promote an agenda, period. At least
they are honest.
Bill C



Can you give an example of when a rider's confidentiality was violated
by WADA or the labs?

Magilla
  #7  
Old July 24th 08, 02:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bill C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,199
Default Suicidal cycling

On Jul 24, 9:35*am, MagillaGorilla wrote:


Can you give an example of when a rider's confidentiality was violated
by WADA or the labs?

Magilla- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Where the **** do you think the leaks are coming from, the tooth
fairy? The UCI has been responsible for some too, but not the current
ones.
We're not gonna get names because the press protects "their"
sleazeballs. It's BS they can print **** from "unmamed sources" and
ruin people with it.
Bill C
  #8  
Old July 24th 08, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 816
Default Suicidal cycling

Bill C wrote:

On Jul 24, 9:35 am, MagillaGorilla wrote:


Can you give an example of when a rider's confidentiality was violated
by WADA or the labs?

Magilla- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Where the **** do you think the leaks are coming from, the tooth
fairy? The UCI has been responsible for some too, but not the current
ones.
We're not gonna get names because the press protects "their"
sleazeballs. It's BS they can print **** from "unmamed sources" and
ruin people with it.
Bill C



The leaks are coming from someone in the athlete's entourage (when the
athlete is notified of the positive A-sample, they tell lots of people).
The "leaks" are also coming from the federation when they're notified.

But none of the leaks are coming from WADA or the labs. The lab
workers don't even know who the **** it is who tested positive because
all they have is a number ID.

Second - what ****ing difference does it make given that in 99.999% of
allpositive A-tests, the athlete is found guilty. You appear to be
calling a "violation of a rider's confidentiality" what is really just a
delay.

Once the federation is notified, they can make it public if they want.

Where are you coming up with this confidentialuty violation stuff? And
second, what difference does it make given that they are all found
guilty anyway. All you seem to be arguing about is a silly delay in
notifing the public should take place. Why is that such a big deal to you?


Magilla
  #9  
Old July 24th 08, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bill C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,199
Default Suicidal cycling

On Jul 24, 4:03*pm, MagillaGorilla wrote:
Bill C wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:35 am, MagillaGorilla wrote:


Can you give an example of when a rider's confidentiality was violated
by WADA or the labs?


Magilla- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Where the **** do you think the leaks are coming from, the tooth
fairy? The UCI has been responsible for some too, but not the current
ones.
*We're not gonna get names because the press protects "their"
sleazeballs. It's BS they can print **** from "unmamed sources" and
ruin people with it.
*Bill C


The leaks are coming from someone in the athlete's entourage (when the
athlete is notified of the positive A-sample, they tell lots of people).
* The "leaks" are also coming from the federation when they're notified..

But none of the leaks are coming from WADA or the labs. * The lab
workers don't even know who the **** it is who tested positive because
all they have is a number ID.

Second - what ****ing difference does it make given that in 99.999% of
allpositive A-tests, the athlete is found guilty. *You appear to be
calling a "violation of a rider's confidentiality" what is really just a
delay.

Once the federation is notified, they can make it public if they want.

Where are you coming up with this confidentialuty violation stuff? *And
second, what difference does it make given that they are all found
guilty anyway. *All you seem to be arguing about is a silly delay in
notifing the public should take place. * Why is that such a big deal to you?

Magilla- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Just lynch the ****ers right?
(wording intentional)
Bill C
 




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