Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

Not at all. I buy stuff there (accessories, tires, just bought a seat) from
time to time. Had a local shop fix my broken spokes.

If someone wants to buy a high-priced bike at one, God bless them. What I
don't like (because it's BS) is when people try to tell newbies that that's
the only place to buy a bike, especially people of limited means shopping
for a kid. One can buy a good quality and durable bicycle at a sporting
goods department store (and probably at Wal-Mart, too) for quite a bit less
that anything you'll find in a bike shop. I did it three years ago for $225.
My boss did it last year for $200. When (if) my $225 Mongoose ever wears
out, I'll check to see what bike shops have to offer and then I'll check
Dick's again. If Dick's offers the better value, as it did before, I'll buy
from Dick's, again.

I ride my bike for exercise and enjoyment. I don't care whose name is
stickered on it. I do care about keeping costs down.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Pat" wrote in message ...

"
This bike shop bike bigotry really irks me. I bought a Mongoose
Switchback
Cx "comfort" (aluminum frame, chrome-molly fork) bike at Dick's 3 years
ago
for $225. I use it a LOT (put an odometer on it last June and it reads
3300
miles in that time and I did not use it at all this last winter), 17+
miles
a day every day when weather permits. (Rode it most days through the
winter
when it was over 20 F - mid-Michigan - the first two winters I had it.
I
have had to replace the tires, a worn out bottom bracket, replaced brake
pads, and deal with a broken spoke problem that was my fault, (I was
over-inflating the skinny tires in search of lower rolling resistance).
I
call that very satisfactory performance for $225. I don't for a second
think
I would have gotten better performance from a $500+ bike I got at a bike
shop.

If by bike shop bigotry, you mean YOUR bigotry, I'd say you've hit it dead
on.
You DO seem to have a lot of bias against bike shops by your
super-defensive
post.

Pat in TX

"GRL" wrote in message
...
Not at all. I buy stuff there (accessories, tires, just bought a seat)
from
time to time. Had a local shop fix my broken spokes.

If someone wants to buy a high-priced bike at one, God bless them. What I
don't like (because it's BS) is when people try to tell newbies that
that's
the only place to buy a bike, especially people of limited means shopping
for a kid. One can buy a good quality and durable bicycle at a sporting
goods department store (and probably at Wal-Mart, too) for quite a bit
less
that anything you'll find in a bike shop. I did it three years ago for
$225.
My boss did it last year for $200. When (if) my $225 Mongoose ever wears
out, I'll check to see what bike shops have to offer and then I'll check
Dick's again. If Dick's offers the better value, as it did before, I'll
buy
from Dick's, again.

I ride my bike for exercise and enjoyment. I don't care whose name is
stickered on it. I do care about keeping costs down.

Co-worker of mine went from a $200 Costco Mongoose to a $220 bike shop Trek,
and was amazed (his words) at the difference.

Not all bike shop bikes are expensive.

Pete

Tires act as shock absorbers. If you over-inflate a tire (especially a
narrow tire) you have less shock absorbing ability from the tire (it is less
flexible) so when you hit a bump more of the shock goes to the spokes. I
ride a rail trail that has several bumpy bridges and I am not a
light-weight. I started breaking spokes when I put on a 1.4" tire and
over-inflated about 10 psi (to about 90 psi). Had the wheel repaired and
tensioned by a bike mechanic. Broken spokes continued. Replaced the wheel
with a new wheel. Same problem. Finally went back to a 2" tire inflated to
75 psi and no more broken spokes. May some day put the 1.4" back on and try
it at 75 psi. For now I run a 1.4" in front and a 2" in back. Front at 85
psi and back at 75 psi. Works fine.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Rick Onanian" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:14:12 -0400, "GRL"
wrote:
deal with a broken spoke problem that was my fault, (I was
over-inflating the skinny tires in search of lower rolling resistance).

How would overinflation cause spoke problems?

Spoke breakage has two possible causes in almost every case:
- Direct trauma, such as getting something caught in the spokes
- Bad wheel build (insufficient tension and/or not stress relieved)

Use groups.google.com to search rec.bicycles.tech for endless
discussions; read articles on sheldonbrown.com for how-to
instructions; and read The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt for all the
theory and practice involved.

Overinflating a wheel that was not sufficiently tensioned would
hasten it's failure, I suppose; the low-tension spokes would, on
radial compression of the rim, go entirely slack. Once they slacken
easily, they can break quickly.
--
Rick Onanian

GRL wrote:
Tires act as shock absorbers. If you over-inflate a tire (especially a
narrow tire) you have less shock absorbing ability from the tire (it
is less flexible) so when you hit a bump more of the shock goes to
the spokes. I ride a rail trail that has several bumpy bridges and I
am not a light-weight. I started breaking spokes when I put on a 1.4"
tire and over-inflated about 10 psi (to about 90 psi). Had the wheel
repaired and tensioned by a bike mechanic. Broken spokes continued.
Replaced the wheel with a new wheel. Same problem. Finally went back
to a 2" tire inflated to 75 psi and no more broken spokes. May some
day put the 1.4" back on and try it at 75 psi. For now I run a 1.4"
in front and a 2" in back. Front at 85 psi and back at 75 psi. Works
fine.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Would you please stop top-posting? Your messages all start out as if the
reader knows what the hell you're talking about, when in fact s/he doesn't.
(If one has to scroll down to /find/ what it is you're replying to, then
THAT is where your reply belongs. Get it?)

Bill "won't hold his breath" S.

{context snipped for coherency}

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 23:47:53 -0400, "GRL"
wrote:
Tires act as shock absorbers. If you over-inflate a tire (especially a
narrow tire) you have less shock absorbing ability from the tire (it is less
flexible) so when you hit a bump more of the shock goes to the spokes. I
ride a rail trail that has several bumpy bridges and I am not a
light-weight. I started breaking spokes when I put on a 1.4" tire and
over-inflated about 10 psi (to about 90 psi). Had the wheel repaired and

Wheels that are this sensitive are made of insufficient parts,
incorrectly built, or horribly overloaded. Inexpensive well-built
bicycle wheels can take a lot more abuse than the rider can,
especially when the rider has an extra-narrow overinflated tire.

I am 210 pounds, don't ride gently, and have _never_ broken a spoke.

On-road, I ride a road bike with lightweight rims and narrow (23
millimeter) tires inflated to 125psi. I sometimes bunny-hop this
bike over road obstacles that have surprised me, like a bridge
expansion joint I wasn't expecting.

Off-road, I ride an inexpensive mountain bike from a bike shop; I
ride very rough, rocky trails as fast and hard as I can, and I never
break spokes. I ride fast over logs, whacking the rear wheel hard
often because I'm not very good at it. Of course, those maneuvers
require my to get the front wheel airborne to get it over the
logs/rocks/whatever, and I land hard on the wheel; even when I
didn't have a suspension fork, my spokes were fine. And you know
what? My front tire is a 1.5" at 70 PSI while I do all that. My rear
is a 2.1" at 65 PSI. Both are Continental kevlar-bead tires. (As a
side, I've decided I ought to lower the pressure for my own comfort,
but I haven't tried it yet.)

Both bikes' wheels have cheap, lightweight rims, unidentified
spokes, and low to mid level hubs. To tell you the truth, I'm
surprised they haven't given me more trouble; the mountain bike
wheels need minor truing once a year, and the road bike wheels
needed minor truing _once_, shortly after I bought it. Both run very
straight and true otherwise.

tensioned by a bike mechanic. Broken spokes continued. Replaced the wheel
with a new wheel. Same problem. Finally went back to a 2" tire inflated to
75 psi and no more broken spokes. May some day put the 1.4" back on and try
it at 75 psi. For now I run a 1.4" in front and a 2" in back. Front at 85
psi and back at 75 psi. Works fine.

Replacing your 2" with a 1.4" at the same pressure will probably be
counterproductive, if you're looking to reduce rolling resistance.
Search groups.google.com for a recent discussion of why this is.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Yes indeed...your mechanic is not a good wheel builder/fixer/truer.
That is, unless you weigh as much as Chalo Colina.
--
Rick Onanian

I'm surprised that your friend could find a new Trek for $220.have never
seen a new one for anything approaching that price. Good for him?

By any chance was the Costco bike one of those quasi-mountain bike
monstrosities with un-needed suspension front and back and the Trek a
hard-tail/fixed fork model? If yes, I can see why he might prefer the former
for road use. I would, too.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Pete" wrote in message
...

"GRL" wrote in message
...
Not at all. I buy stuff there (accessories, tires, just bought a seat)
from
time to time. Had a local shop fix my broken spokes.

If someone wants to buy a high-priced bike at one, God bless them. What
I
don't like (because it's BS) is when people try to tell newbies that
that's
the only place to buy a bike, especially people of limited means
shopping
for a kid. One can buy a good quality and durable bicycle at a sporting
goods department store (and probably at Wal-Mart, too) for quite a bit
less
that anything you'll find in a bike shop. I did it three years ago for
$225.
My boss did it last year for $200. When (if) my $225 Mongoose ever wears
out, I'll check to see what bike shops have to offer and then I'll check
Dick's again. If Dick's offers the better value, as it did before, I'll
buy
from Dick's, again.

I ride my bike for exercise and enjoyment. I don't care whose name is
stickered on it. I do care about keeping costs down.

Co-worker of mine went from a $200 Costco Mongoose to a $220 bike shop
Trek,
and was amazed (his words) at the difference.

Not all bike shop bikes are expensive.

Pete

Sorry, but that's the way my mail client, Outlook Express works. I apologize
for the inconvenience to you.

Damn that Bill Gates!


- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"S o r n i" wrote in message
news
GRL wrote:
Tires act as shock absorbers. If you over-inflate a tire (especially a
narrow tire) you have less shock absorbing ability from the tire (it
is less flexible) so when you hit a bump more of the shock goes to
the spokes. I ride a rail trail that has several bumpy bridges and I
am not a light-weight. I started breaking spokes when I put on a 1.4"
tire and over-inflated about 10 psi (to about 90 psi). Had the wheel
repaired and tensioned by a bike mechanic. Broken spokes continued.
Replaced the wheel with a new wheel. Same problem. Finally went back
to a 2" tire inflated to 75 psi and no more broken spokes. May some
day put the 1.4" back on and try it at 75 psi. For now I run a 1.4"
in front and a 2" in back. Front at 85 psi and back at 75 psi. Works
fine.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Would you please stop top-posting? Your messages all start out as if the
reader knows what the hell you're talking about, when in fact s/he
doesn't.
(If one has to scroll down to /find/ what it is you're replying to, then
THAT is where your reply belongs. Get it?)

Bill "won't hold his breath" S.

{context snipped for coherency}

240 lb. Actually I had the spokes fixed at two different shops. Same result
both times. My bike has no suspension. My guess is that if you put your 1.5"
tire on your back wheel and pump it up to 90 psi you'll start breaking
spokes. If I keep the 2.00" tire on the back at 75 psi I never break spokes,
either. Same 1.4" tire on the front at 85 psi never breaks spokes either.
These are not expensive wheels, but they are not junk and they are 32 spoke
standard gage with double-wall rims. Thicker gage spokes (maybe 36 spokes)
on a custom rim would very possibly hold up better, but I am not about to
buy a wheel that costs as much as my whole bike cost when I can solve the
problem with a tire change and a little less air pressure. (I could also
lose weight, but while the mind is willing "the flesh is weak".)

I'll check into your link, but I don't see how a narrower tire can do
anything but lower rolling resistance. Remember all those land speed record
jet and rocket cars? They all ride very hard very narrow tires to...lower
rolling resistance in search of maximum speed. Cars that are sold into the
high mpg market all have narrow tires made with hard (lots of silica and
less carbon black) compounds to minimize rolling resistance. Dragster front
tires which do nothing but steer and apply no power are always very narrow
to minimize rolling (and air) resistance. The analogies are compelling.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Rick Onanian" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 23:47:53 -0400, "GRL"
wrote:
Tires act as shock absorbers. If you over-inflate a tire (especially a
narrow tire) you have less shock absorbing ability from the tire (it is
less
flexible) so when you hit a bump more of the shock goes to the spokes. I
ride a rail trail that has several bumpy bridges and I am not a
light-weight. I started breaking spokes when I put on a 1.4" tire and
over-inflated about 10 psi (to about 90 psi). Had the wheel repaired and

Wheels that are this sensitive are made of insufficient parts,
incorrectly built, or horribly overloaded. Inexpensive well-built
bicycle wheels can take a lot more abuse than the rider can,
especially when the rider has an extra-narrow overinflated tire.

I am 210 pounds, don't ride gently, and have _never_ broken a spoke.

On-road, I ride a road bike with lightweight rims and narrow (23
millimeter) tires inflated to 125psi. I sometimes bunny-hop this
bike over road obstacles that have surprised me, like a bridge
expansion joint I wasn't expecting.

Off-road, I ride an inexpensive mountain bike from a bike shop; I
ride very rough, rocky trails as fast and hard as I can, and I never
break spokes. I ride fast over logs, whacking the rear wheel hard
often because I'm not very good at it. Of course, those maneuvers
require my to get the front wheel airborne to get it over the
logs/rocks/whatever, and I land hard on the wheel; even when I
didn't have a suspension fork, my spokes were fine. And you know
what? My front tire is a 1.5" at 70 PSI while I do all that. My rear
is a 2.1" at 65 PSI. Both are Continental kevlar-bead tires. (As a
side, I've decided I ought to lower the pressure for my own comfort,
but I haven't tried it yet.)

Both bikes' wheels have cheap, lightweight rims, unidentified
spokes, and low to mid level hubs. To tell you the truth, I'm
surprised they haven't given me more trouble; the mountain bike
wheels need minor truing once a year, and the road bike wheels
needed minor truing _once_, shortly after I bought it. Both run very
straight and true otherwise.

tensioned by a bike mechanic. Broken spokes continued. Replaced the wheel
with a new wheel. Same problem. Finally went back to a 2" tire inflated
to
75 psi and no more broken spokes. May some day put the 1.4" back on and
try
it at 75 psi. For now I run a 1.4" in front and a 2" in back. Front at 85
psi and back at 75 psi. Works fine.

Replacing your 2" with a 1.4" at the same pressure will probably be
counterproductive, if you're looking to reduce rolling resistance.
Search groups.google.com for a recent discussion of why this is.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Yes indeed...your mechanic is not a good wheel builder/fixer/truer.
That is, unless you weigh as much as Chalo Colina.
--
Rick Onanian

In article ,
says...
I'm surprised that your friend could find a new Trek for $220.have never
seen a new one for anything approaching that price. Good for him?

Check out the Trek 3500/3700. They list at about $269 to start, and you
can probably get them cheaper than that, so $220 wouldn't surprise me at
all, especially if it was last year's model.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:14:12 -0400, "GRL"
wrote:

(Rode it most days through the winter
when it was over 20 F - mid-Michigan - the first two winters I had it. I
have had to replace the tires, a worn out bottom bracket, replaced brake
pads, and deal with a broken spoke problem that was my fault, (I was
over-inflating the skinny tires in search of lower rolling resistance). I
call that very satisfactory performance for $225. I don't for a second
think
I would have gotten better performance from a $500+ bike I got at a bike
shop.

Well, I would expect better than replacing the bottom bracket in 3300
to 5000 miles of riding in a $ 500 bike.

I replaced the cartridge bottom bracket in my Raleigh after its first
winter.
My best guess is too much road salt; there's probably a lot of that in
mid-Michigan, too.
I complained about this short life on a winter cycling list, and discovered
some other people had similar failure stories.

In short, bottom brackets are the type of part that can sometimes fail at
short intervals when used in winter conditions.
--
---
Mike Kruger
Blog: http://journals.aol.com/mikekr/ZbicyclistsZlog/