Bianchi are appaling and last 365 days

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" wrote in message
...

well it's about time constructors catch up with market developments
.......

http://www.economist.com/business/di...ory_id=2092710




Dumbass -

that is very cool - "globesity"

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" wrote in
message
...

well it's about time constructors catch up with market developments
.......

http://www.economist.com/business/di...ory_id=2092710




Dumbass -

that is very cool - "globesity"



So Americans are losing their stranglehold on the obesity monopoly? That is
not good for anyone.

Justin Lewis wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:11:06 -0500, "Carl Sundquist"
wrote:


"Justin Lewis" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:40:39 -0500, "Carl Sundquist"
wrote:


"Justin Lewis" wrote in message

Nice to know that as a qualified lawyer I should bow to your superior
knowledge of Dutch law. Thanks.

Why would a qualified lawyer feel the need to express and defend himself on Dutch law
in
this non-legal, predominately non Dutch forum?

You have yet to find a single reply supporting your opinion.

If Dutch law is on your side, then take it to court there.

Please, let your next post on this subject be one with a link to the findings of the
court.


Do not have to: I already got half the money back in circumstances
under which most contributors would have just said: "Oh darn". I am
just surprised that you lot accept and eat such ****.

You did not answer my question: "Why would a qualified lawyer feel the need to express and
defend himself on Dutch law in
this non-legal, predominately non Dutch forum?"

The main thrust of my argument is that Bianchi has acted in an
unreasonable way which will eventually cost it more than has been
saved by refusing me (and my retailer) any gesture of goodwill.
The retailer from whom I bought the frame has experienced an
abnormally high failure rate from Bianchi frames (upto 70% of the
frames sold since Pantani's glory year have been returned). Even those
frames which broke within the guarantee period were not replaced by
Bianchi or were replaced after upto 6 months.

The retailer no longer sells Bianchi frames and the reputation in
Holland is at an all time low.

I got on to talking about law when it became apparent that I am in the
minority regards the knowledge that a manufacturer's legal obligations
to its consumers extends beyond the end of the guarantee. I find it
remarkable that many of you accept such shoddy treatment from your
dealers which encourages their callous attitude.

The dealer is out of pocket? Well he very often makes a large profit:
that is the risk of his profession.

Well the dealer was being nice to you and preserving goodwill. While
the warranty is the manufacturers responsiblilty, in many cases the
dealer can get some extra leeway in the warranty from the bike
company. The dealer also has a certain degree of responsibility to
advise the customer as too the products reliablity and value.

I think Bianchi and other bicycle companies need to do a better job of
informing the consumer about the durability of their frames. Awhile
back Columbus was touting the hardness rating of their Columbus
Starship tubing. Columbus does mention the tensile strength in their
brochure, but hardness has little to do with the tubing's overall
strength. The bike magazines have not done a good job either. In the
end it still boils down to let the buyer beware.

"Nick Burns" wrote in message
m...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" wrote in
message
...

well it's about time constructors catch up with market developments
.......

http://www.economist.com/business/di...ory_id=2092710




Dumbass -

that is very cool - "globesity"



So Americans are losing their stranglehold on the obesity monopoly? That is
not good for anyone.



Dumbass -

you're right, that isn't good.

Even if we lose our monopoly, we're still way ahead.

"Heinz Getzler" wrote in message
om...

I think Bianchi and other bicycle companies need to do a better job of
informing the consumer about the durability of their frames. Awhile
back Columbus was touting the hardness rating of their Columbus
Starship tubing. Columbus does mention the tensile strength in their
brochure, but hardness has little to do with the tubing's overall
strength.



For the purposes of choosing a material for a bicycle frame, hardness is
almost irrelevant. (pun not intended)

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:31:13 -0700, "Nick Burns"
wrote:


"Justin Lewis" om wrote
in message

More BULL****:


Snip
I have no contract with Bianchi. The term
implied is one of fitness for purpose and merchantable quality. The
retailer's relationship with the importer and Bianchi Italy are not my
concern (Sale of Goods Act and all European countries have a similar
law - harmonization).

I would be interested to know what tests a manufacturer could apply to
establish if radial cracks from both bidon-holder threads on the down
tube and two vertical cracks on right chain-stay behind bracket were
due to incorrect use.

You used it and it was working after 365 days of use. Therefore, you have no
claim, dude. Every frame will wear out eventually.


All damages flowing from this breach on behalf of the retailer are
recoverable.

From him, but not Bianchi.

Interesting: 120 years of consumer protection legislation provides no
further protection than the manufacturer's warranty. What then has
been the point of the legislation, now harmonised throughout the E.U.?
I still maintain that the defects were of such a naturethat the frame
was by definition defective - both the time within which they
manifested themselves and the sort of defect indicate this.
We may differ over the interpretation of whether a frame which
manifests these defects after such a short time is fit for the purpose
and merchantable: the dealer thought not and I know the courts here
would support that opinion.



LOL. You wore out a ****ing frame before you thought the warranty was up.
Ever hear of "caveat emptor"?

The warranty is irrelevant. How do you radial cracks from the
bidon-holder threads round the down-tube constitute "wearing a frame
out"?

"Justin Lewis" om wrote in
message news

LOL. You wore out a ****ing frame before you thought the warranty was up.
Ever hear of "caveat emptor"?

The warranty is irrelevant. How do you radial cracks from the
bidon-holder threads round the down-tube constitute "wearing a frame
out"?





Any frame, if ridden enough, will eventually break.


The lightweight ones break much sooner. They walk a fine line between
performance (lightness) and reliability.


Difficult concept to understand, isn't it?


If you want reliability, don't buy a race bike.


Same concept goes for other products.

If you want auto tires to last 50,000 miles, don't buy soft compound racing
Pirellis.
If you want a wife to live a long time, don't marry a chain-smoking Fattie.
If you want to lose weight, don't eat 3 Big Macs for breakfast.



Finally:

If you make an unwise consumer choice, blame anyone but yourself.

"Justin Lewis" om
LOL. You wore out a ****ing frame before you thought the warranty was up.
Ever hear of "caveat emptor"?

The warranty is irrelevant. How do you radial cracks from the
bidon-holder threads round the down-tube constitute "wearing a frame
out"?


Does Bianchi's one year warranty extend across their whole product line, or only on
certain products designed for high performance racing? I do not believe that high
performance racing products would fall under a category 'durable goods' as defined by
greater than 1/2 decade of use.

What constitutes "wearing a frame out" to you?

Were radial cracks from the bidon-holder threads round the down-tube common to all the
Bianchi frame failures?

"Benjamin Weiner" wrote in message
news:3f72b64a$1@darkstar...
JP wrote:

Ohh I see it's Justins' fault for a bunch of Yanks shooting their ill
informed gobs off.

Actually, if one thing is impressive about this thread, it's
that Justin is such a tool that he united a coalition of the
unwilling against him. Amis, Canadians, Brits, the Benelux
contingent, even a French guy, and I think a Kiwi as well.
When you've got Chang and Lafferty agreeing about something,
that's a sure sign of the apocalypse right there.

The funny thing is that if he'd phrased the complaint differently
instead of being an arrogant twit he might have got sympathy, since
most of us hope our bikes will last longer than a year and a half.

BTW, Henry, Pantani is not a tool. Pantani is a headcase;
for example, Justin is a tool.



lol.

I'll guess Justin has been reading Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and
Influence People"

William Belafor wrote:
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message news:200-
...
probably lies with new light steel used in the 'next generation' steel
bikes, although if the OP posted this to rbt he'd probably have been
told to get an oversized lugged steel frame that weights 5 lbs.

Or a better made steel frameset that weighs about 3.6 pounds. No steel
frameset
we see these days, lugged or not weighs 5 pounds. Mine is lugged
and weighs
3.8
pounds. Another misrepresentation of modern steel.
I make furniture. The only material I use is stainless steel. Despite
its expense and difficulty to machine, it's the best material for this
application (appearance and durability).
When it comes to road bikes, I'd put cro-moly steel 4th behind aluminum,
titanium and carbon (in no particular order). From a physics perspective
it just doesn't have the stiffness to weight ratio the other materials
have. Running finite element analysis programs (Cosmos) on Solidworks
models repeatedly confirms this.
Steel does have one advantage: it's cheap. It does have the best
combination of machinability and weldability. And I suppose some old
farts like the feel. That's fine, it's only a pound (or less)
difference.
Saying that it performs just as well in less subjective measures
(stiffness to weight ratio) would not be an accurate representation.
HC
ps. Yes, I know how to weld aluminum and titanium, no I've never worked
with carbon (although it's simple, just mold and heat).



Dear sir,

How do weld an aluminium head tube that has a 5 mm crack at the bottom
of the head tube near the downtube? I'm curious. I found mine cracked.

mg



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