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#1
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like.
The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. Cheers |
#2
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#3
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Cheers |
#4
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Monday, October 13, 2014 8:05:22 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. That's true. "Sir" is correct. The light that makes you visible to others has to travel only one way, from your light to their retina. It doesn't need much power. I'm now in a resort town with many more bikes per square mile than Portland. Almost none of them have any lights at night, despite signs posted about the legal requirement. But when we've driven around, their reflectors (especially pedal reflectors) have been very easy to see. The very few that have any kind of headlight or taillight are even easier to see. Again: Anyone interested in this should get a friend to help them observe their own lighting system as they drive by in a car. It's not rocket science. But almost nobody seems to do that obvious test! - Frank Krygowski |
#5
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Cheers Probably but the vehicle code says white in front and red in back. Trick is getting motorists educated about that. Having more cyclists around helps. Good point about the size though. I was always using blink mode for the rear until a group member asked me to stop as he was prone to seizures. With a group being seen is less of a concern. I still use blink mode on the rear when commuting alone. -- duane |
#6
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 6:34:28 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power.. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Cheers Probably but the vehicle code says white in front and red in back. Trick is getting motorists educated about that. Having more cyclists around helps. Good point about the size though. I was always using blink mode for the rear until a group member asked me to stop as he was prone to seizures. With a group being seen is less of a concern. I still use blink mode on the rear when commuting alone. -- duane Way back when they were available in bikcycle shops I had a Belt beacon attached to the rear of my MTB and a car quartz halogen driving light mopunted on the front. Cop on Danforth Street viaduct at the Don Valley Parkway (DVP) turnoff flagged me during a RIDE check because he thought I was a one-eyed bandit (car) and had seen me as I approached him there (he at DVP) and me between Parl;iament Street and Caastle Frank as I approached the viaduct to cross. Officer said he loved the setup but I need a red reflector or chaep red light on back too in order to be legal. Now you can buy a decent bsttery powerd light that you can actually see to ride by for the same amount if not less of what I paid for that halogen light and 750cc motorcycle battery to run it with. Cheers |
#7
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
STATIONARY LIGHTS are not blinking lights.....advert lights may be regulated for 'no blinking' ? check on that...
law enforcement uses blinking xmass lights for traffic stops.... |
#8
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 6:34:28 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Cheers Probably but the vehicle code says white in front and red in back. Trick is getting motorists educated about that. Having more cyclists around helps. Good point about the size though. I was always using blink mode for the rear until a group member asked me to stop as he was prone to seizures. With a group being seen is less of a concern. I still use blink mode on the rear when commuting alone. -- duane Way back when they were available in bikcycle shops I had a Belt beacon attached to the rear of my MTB and a car quartz halogen driving light mopunted on the front. Cop on Danforth Street viaduct at the Don Valley Parkway (DVP) turnoff flagged me during a RIDE check because he thought I was a one-eyed bandit (car) and had seen me as I approached him there (he at DVP) and me between Parl;iament Street and Caastle Frank as I approached the viaduct to cross. Officer said he loved the setup but I need a red reflector or chaep red light on back too in order to be legal. Now you can buy a decent bsttery powerd light that you can actually see to ride by for the same amount if not less of what I paid for that halogen light and 750cc motorcycle battery to run it with. Cheers I've said this before but I have Blackburn flea lights to be seen with, white front and rear red. Probably 30 bucks for the pair and both USB chargeable. Work well for commuting as I can charge them at my desk. On times when I need to see I use a planet bike 2w 170 lumen light. I think it was 40 bucks at MEC. Let's me see most of the potholes in the neighbourhoods I'm likely to ride through. I don't do much climbing at night using mostly well lit roads or not so well lit suburban streets so the PB is fine. I could see that a ride like Jay does with twisty hills and rain would require something better. -- duane |
#9
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, October 13, 2014 5:28:01 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Sir Ridesalot wrote: just for fun I removed the solar charger from a malfunctioning lawn light that looks like one of those old round Union headlights. I hard wired this light to a 4.8 volts battery and looked to see what it was like. The three LEDs at the bottom of the three inches diam reflector make a very good be seen light but they because of the reflector design throw a very small amount of light to the surface of the road. It'd be useless for just about any trail riding even with a full moon. I repeated the experiment the next night but with a 7.2 volts battery. The amount of light on the road or trail didn't seem to be much more and the light was still useless for trail riding at anything much over walking speed. This experiment seems to prove that nearly any light can work as a be seen light even though it'd ber useless for seeing anything. It's not just about to be seen. If the light is steady but the size of the light is much smaller than that of a car or motorcycle then car drivers will think you are still much farther away from them than you really are. The only thing that can (somewhat) prevent this effect is a flashing light because cars and motorcycles don't have those except for emergencies. Or a wider light but then you need several watts of power. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. In my opinion, the best colour for avoidance would be amber as that's the international colour for something that motor vehicles shouldn't be running into. Flashing amber is best. Technically not legal to be riding with. Motorists would not necessarily know whether you'd be coming or going. Flashing red works very well. I am always glad to see cyclists use flashing lights even during the day when I am driving in a car (I do that also when on my bicycles). With a bright enough LED you can spot them 14mi to 1/2mi in the distance and prepare yourself well in time to pass or slow down. On my road bike I also use a flashing front light because that lamp has much less than 100 lumens. With that it's fairly worthless as a driving light at night unless I slow down to 10mph. On the mountain bike I leave the front light on steady, in traffic also during the day. Because it's very bright and I really notice the reduction in incursions into my path. Still looking for a bigger light there, 1000 lumens or so, for trail riding in the dark which I'll have to do soon. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#10
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Not much needed in a "Be Seen" light
On 10/14/2014 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip You seem to have missed my point. The point is that it takkes a surprisingly little amount of light being emitted in order to be seen. Being identified as a bicycle is whole other can of worms. But that's the important part. Being identified as a bicycle averts "Oh s..t!" situations where a driver slams on the brakes because he thought you'd be farther away. It can work the other way too. A driver will cut off a fast-moving bicycle because he or she believes that since it's a bicycle coming it must be traveling at 5MPH, not 25MPH. When I started using good lights that were such that it was not possible to tell what was coming, I got cut off far less often than when I was using poor lights. The daytime flasher makes a ginormous difference in terms of being cut off when going straight across an intersection when the motor vehicle is turning left in front of you. What is most amusing is so many drivers don't use a left turn signal unless they see a vehicle across the intersection. These intersections can be across six lanes of traffic plus a median. As soon as they see the flashing front light suddenly the turn signal goes on. There is still a lack of consensus as to whether a steady on light is better than or worse than a flashing light. As long as I have to contend with battery-powered weak LED lights I will keep them on flash, always. If I could find a big enough rear light that can reasonably be spliced into a battery pack I'd use a steady light, maybe. Big as in physically large and a total of 1-2W worth of LED power in there. There is no lack of consensus. It does not have to be unanimous for it to be considered consensus. There are a few people that are just saying that there is no proof because they don't want to look at, or believe, the proof. Also, what's very instructive is to look at who insists that there is no advantage to a flashing front daytime light. If Frank says that there is no advantage then you can take it to the bank that there is a big advantage. |
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