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#131
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"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... "HHS" wrote in message ... Life could be taxing for these children. So it would be better if we kill them now. They would eventually die anyway after a "quite unpleasant" life. Have I got that right? Of course the fetuses don't have a voice or a say in this matter. My question was hypothetical. Your answer is they can't respond to questions so they don't get to have a choice. We knew that already. Read my response to Ed Dolan for more details but briefly 1. A fetus is not a child. It can not live at all without a host. It is not a human life. Abortion of a fetus is a medical procedure and not "killing". Wrong on every count. With an idiot like Jeff, it is all semantics. That must be a Jewish thing. Were the Jews "murdered" in the concentration camps or were they just "liquidated." 2. The fetus does not have a voice. You are correct about that part. They are not people yet. The potential to become a person does not give them human rights. While they are still called a fetus they do not have the ability to survive on their own. Jeff, the total idiot, confuses "legal" rights with "natural" rights. Why the hell didn't his mother abort him so we would not have to abide his murderous nonsense. 3. I said that social issues and societal impact are important. It does not mean that you can make the credulous cause and effect logical leaps that you made. The social impacts need to be considered BEFORE conception, not AFTER conception. Jeff has got everything ass backwards as usual. Keep in mind that the wealthy will always have access to abortion. The only thing that you are debating is whether or not those who aren't wealthy should have access to it. That is not the debate at all as much as you would like it to be. The debate is how many unborn children are going to be murdered to make life more convenient for criminal slobs like you. Many (most?) reputable scientists do not agree with the "abortion equals murder" assertion. Just because you use inflammatory rhetoric does not make your position correct. Any person who has eyes in his head can see what abortion is all about - science or no science. But liberals like Jeff do not want anyone to even look at the pictures of abortions. The hypocrisy is monumental on their part. I charge abortionists with murder and those who support and approve of it are also murderers. The day is not far off when what has been happening for the past several decades will be seen for what it is and it will be reversed with a vengeance. Liberals like Jeff will be thought monsters for thinking the way they did. Others will forgive them their trespasses, but I, Saint Edward the Great, will not. Some things cannot be forgiven - ever! Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
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#132
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"Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... "HHS" wrote in message ... Life could be taxing for these children. So it would be better if we kill them now. They would eventually die anyway after a "quite unpleasant" life. Have I got that right? Of course the fetuses don't have a voice or a say in this matter. My question was hypothetical. Your answer is they can't respond to questions so they don't get to have a choice. We knew that already. Read my response to Ed Dolan for more details but briefly 1. A fetus is not a child. It can not live at all without a host. It is not a human life. Abortion of a fetus is a medical procedure and not "killing". Like "harvesting" baby seals as you would most likely put it wouldn't you Jeff? Wrong on every count. With an idiot like Jeff, it is all semantics. That must be a Jewish thing. Were the Jews "murdered" in the concentration camps or were they just "liquidated." Of course no Jews were murdered in concentration camps. Just ask any Nazi. There was however a procedure called the Final Solution that was administered to them by their hosts at the camps. The overseers said it was a procedure and not killing. |
#133
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Abortion
HHS and Dolan: Lets get some thing straight. 1. You feel that abortion is that taking of an already existing human life. You feel it is the moral equivilant of murder. I am certain that if I felt the way you do I would feel the same amount of outrage that you do. So we can begin with a point of agreement, specifically that murder is morally wrong and we both are outraged by it. There are no social issues or impact that justify murder. Don't accuse me of things I didn't say. Because I point out the social issues does not mean that I would condone abortion if I believed it was murder. I wouldn't. Just so that we have a two way point of agreement, lets also agree that if it could somehow be demonstrated to your satisfaction that abortion was not infact the taking of human life then it wouldn't be repugnant to you. I'm not saying that I or anyone else can do this and I promise not to even try. I'm just saying that we have a point of agreement at the idea that murder is wrong. The key difference in our opinion is not that I condone murder and you don't. It is that I don't believe abortion is murder and you do. If you are going to attempt to change my opinion or the opinion of people who think like I do then it would probably be best not to lump us together with practitioners of genocide or clubbers of baby seals, etc. 2. Given how you feel, you should continue to advocate for your position and attempt to get the laws of this country changed. That is what I would do if I felt the way you do. But you must also admit that as obvious as you feel your position is, it is not the only position on the issue. At this point it is not the majority position although the opinion is pretty evenly divided. I wouldn't say that either side has a clear mandate of public opinion. Don't bother to show me your statitics and surveys because I can find ones done by people who feel the way I do that are the mirror image. 3. Social Issues. It is all well and good to say that people should abstain from sex to prevent pregnancy. The problem is that they don't. You can advocate it all you want but it is never going to be an effective birth control method. Not because it wouldn't work but because you won't get enough people to practice it. It is also important to recognize that abortion will always be available to the wealthy. It always has been. Weather you like it or not you are really trying to legislate its availability to those who couldn't afford it otherwise. You can't completely divorce class from the issue. Note to Ed: I know you don't like this style of posting. You've made that clear. If all you are capable of is insulting me becuase you don't like my posting style then you don't get to discuss an issue of great importance to you. Do you really care about my posting style at a level equal to how you feel about abortion? I would think that the abortion issue trumps here. |
#134
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"Jeff Grippe" jeff@door7 wrote in message ... Abortion Just Abortion? When I have waxed eloquent and imparted immortal words of wisdom to all and sundry? Have you no shame? HHS and Dolan: Lets get some thing straight. 1. You feel that abortion is that taking of an already existing human life. You feel it is the moral equivilant of murder. I am certain that if I felt the way you do I would feel the same amount of outrage that you do. So we can begin with a point of agreement, specifically that murder is morally wrong and we both are outraged by it. There are no social issues or impact that justify murder. Don't accuse me of things I didn't say. Because I point out the social issues does not mean that I would condone abortion if I believed it was murder. I wouldn't. The social issues, whatever they are, are not worth considering when confronted with the reality of taking innocent human lives. Just so that we have a two way point of agreement, lets also agree that if it could somehow be demonstrated to your satisfaction that abortion was not infact the taking of human life then it wouldn't be repugnant to you. I'm not saying that I or anyone else can do this and I promise not to even try. I'm just saying that we have a point of agreement at the idea that murder is wrong. The key difference in our opinion is not that I condone murder and you don't. It is that I don't believe abortion is murder and you do. If you are going to attempt to change my opinion or the opinion of people who think like I do then it would probably be best not to lump us together with practitioners of genocide or clubbers of baby seals, etc. You cannot persuade anyone that abortion is not the taking of innocent human life (murder). Abortion has been with us for a long time now and it is a more divisive issue that it has ever been. Abortion is not just another subject to be discussed rationally. It is like the subject of slavery just prior to the Civil War. You have chosen your side and I have chose my side. I would be willing to have another civil war over this issue because I believe it goes to the heart of what a humane and good society is all about. Like all liberals, you have blinders on and you do not use words the way they should be used. You are into euphemisms and nonsense talk. There is no disagreement about what an unborn child is and what it is that you do to that unborn child when you abort it. You do it because you value the convenience of individuals more than you do any God given right to life. The religionists are right on this issue and the liberal secularists are a horror and an abomination. You are only a step away from the likes of Hitler and Stalin and other mass murderers. 2. Given how you feel, you should continue to advocate for your position and attempt to get the laws of this country changed. That is what I would do if I felt the way you do. But you must also admit that as obvious as you feel your position is, it is not the only position on the issue. At this point it is not the majority position although the opinion is pretty evenly divided. I wouldn't say that either side has a clear mandate of public opinion. Don't bother to show me your statitics and surveys because I can find ones done by people who feel the way I do that are the mirror image. We do not need liberal judges to tell us what to think about an issue such as abortion. The damn liberal judges are making the laws, not our elected representatives. That is going to change shortly thanks to President Bush and no thanks to a moral cretin like former President Clinton. Public opinion has been subject to liberal media bias on this issue from the beginning. Opinions can be easily change from pro to con if and when the facts are presented truthfully, something the liberal media is incapable of doing. 3. Social Issues. It is all well and good to say that people should abstain from sex to prevent pregnancy. The problem is that they don't. You can advocate it all you want but it is never going to be an effective birth control method. Not because it wouldn't work but because you won't get enough people to practice it. It is also important to recognize that abortion will always be available to the wealthy. It always has been. Weather you like it or not you are really trying to legislate its availability to those who couldn't afford it otherwise. You can't completely divorce class from the issue. Who cares if a few rich people want to abort (kill) their own children for the sake of their convenience. I do not want all of society imitating such swinish behavior. Until fairly recently, the moral middle classes have always had a superior morality to the immoral wealthy. I would like to keep it that way. The very rich and the very poor have always behaved like swine. What else is new? We need to only concern ourselves with the middle classes, which is about 90% of all of society. Note to Ed: I know you don't like this style of posting. You've made that clear. If all you are capable of is insulting me becuase you don't like my posting style then you don't get to discuss an issue of great importance to you. Do you really care about my posting style at a level equal to how you feel about abortion? I would think that the abortion issue trumps here. Nothing trumps posting style! It is the one and only thing that counts in the grand scheme of things. You ought to be thrown up against a wall and executed forthwith. Top posters are deserving of the lowest levels of Hell. Read your Dante if you would like to know where you are destined to go for your posting transgressions. Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#135
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"Jeff Grippe" jeff@door7 wrote in message ... Abortion [...] It is all well and good to say that people should abstain from sex to prevent pregnancy. The problem is that they don't. You can advocate it all you want but it is never going to be an effective birth control method. Not because it wouldn't work but because you won't get enough people to practice it. People should behave like human beings and not like swine. If all else fails, they can follow my example. I am a Great Saint because I have recognized from my teenage years that the one and only purpose of sex was to create new life. Anyone engaged in it for any other purpose is a Great Sinner and will surely never go to Heaven. I even look down on my fellow Saints like Saint Augustine because he was a Great Sinner before he became a Saint. But please note well that he is only a Saint and not a Great Saint like me. In order to be a Great Saint, you need to have never sinned, at least not in the sexual sphere. However, I do not compare myself to Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary. They are into forgiveness and I never forgive anyone anything. I have a long memory and I carry grudges for all eternity. So even though I am a Great Saint, I am not God. But I know how God thinks and I know He does no approve of secular liberal Jews like Jeff Grippe who thinks abortion is just fine and dandy and a neat way to get rid of unwanted children. But what do secular liberal Jews know of anything? All they know is their confounded liberal ideology which leads them down every false path that mankind has ever known. They end up friends and neighbors to the likes of Hitler and Stalin. All leftists are as loony as they come. Here is the progression: liberal - socialist - communist - mass murderer. If Jeff Grippe is not careful, he will end up like Michael Moore, a treasonous white pig who has no brain. Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#136
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"HHS" wrote in message news "Edward Dolan" wrote in message ... "Jeff Grippe" wrote in message ... "HHS" wrote in message ... Life could be taxing for these children. So it would be better if we kill them now. They would eventually die anyway after a "quite unpleasant" life. Have I got that right? Of course the fetuses don't have a voice or a say in this matter. My question was hypothetical. Your answer is they can't respond to questions so they don't get to have a choice. We knew that already. Read my response to Ed Dolan for more details but briefly 1. A fetus is not a child. Jeez! Maybe the lady is going to have a frog instead of a human child? It can not live at all without a host. Not relevant! This is what is known as deep liberal thought. It is not a human life. It is most likely going to be a frog life! Abortion of a fetus is a medical procedure and not "killing". Be sure not to ever let any anyone see any pictures of what is taking place. If they do they will clearly see that the medical procedure is a killing. Even abortion doctors do not like to discuss what it is that they do in order too kill an unborn child. I wonder why that is? Like "harvesting" baby seals as you would most likely put it wouldn't you Jeff? Wrong on every count. With an idiot like Jeff, it is all semantics. That must be a Jewish thing. Were the Jews "murdered" in the concentration camps or were they just "liquidated." Of course no Jews were murdered in concentration camps. Just ask any Nazi. There was however a procedure called the Final Solution that was administered to them by their hosts at the camps. The overseers said it was a procedure and not killing. Extremely well said HHS! Would those who think abortion is an excellent way to get rid of unwanted children tell me what pro-choice means. That is the greatest weasel word I have ever come across in connection with the issue of abortion. You are either FOR abortion or you are AGAINST it. What does "pro-choice" have to do with it? Jeff is pro-abortion, I am anti- abortion. Leave it to cowardly liberals to fudge the terminology when they do not want to face up to what words mean. Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota |
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