Why/How Basso improved in TT

Is Basso's training handled by Luigi Cecchini (The same one that took care
of Rjis and Tyler)?.

Maybe Cerevelo's bikes and the wind tunnel had some effect... But I was
paying attention to the bis a bis between Karpets and Basso to compare it to
the last TT in the TdF 2004 in which they were both highly motivated to
perform well -one to stay in podium and the other to get the white jersey.

Stage 19 - July 24: Besancon - Besancon ITT, 55 km
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49
(49.39 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.27
4 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 2.25
5 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 2.48
6 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.50
7 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 3.19
8 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 3.33

Giro 2005 - May 15: Lamporecchio - Firenze ITT, 45 km

1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 58.31
(46.14 km/h)
2 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 0.17
3 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel-Pro Cycling Team 0.44
4 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 0.48
5 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr) Domina Vacanze 0.51
6 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears 1.07


So the relative distance is similar.


"sonarrat" wrote in message
...
routebeer wrote:

Lets see..., he's shown dramatic improvement and he's riding for CSC...
the only thing missing from this story is a positive test result.

Dumbass,

That's the thing that's missing from the CSC story in general. Their
success comes from a combination of tight Fassa-like control and
Euskaltel-like cohesion and camraderie.

-Sonarrat.

amit wrote:
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

jc wrote:

Tour. Indeed, it seems at times as if the main difference between
T-Mobile, often considered a black hole of talent,

Dumbass -

T-Mobile, a black hole of talent?

You've seriously got your head up your ass.


dumbass,

he only said that is what is often said. but there's enough cases to
argue that point, savoldelli, sevilla, evans (all guys who led a GT)
fizzled at T-mobile. julich, botero, aerts all got worse when they got
there.

other than vino i can't think of a case where they took a promising
rider from another team to the next level. (nardello did win a world
cup, but he's an old fart and it's not like he made a huge leap).

somehow i don't think they're doing everything right.


Yep, those were the names I was thinking of, as it happens. There's
plenty of talent there at T-Mobile, but it seems like anyone who
transfers there disappears.

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
amit wrote:

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:



Some critics state that USPS's dominance makes the TdF boring and

in

some instances they've been right, but if it were easy to to it,

then

every team would - every team would love to win that race, if they
could.

dumbass,

i don't think anyone is suggesting that dominating the tdf is easy,
even with the right rider,




Dumbass -

I think that's what jc is suggesting.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.


Nah, I agree it's not easy. But the comparison was between Riis and
Bruyneel in terms of developing talent, and from where I'm sitting Riis
comes out ahead in that game. Certainly Bruyneel has played a key role
in Lance's success and hired some talented guys to support LA at the
Tour, but I wonder how many other DS's might have been able to achieve
the same results. Impossible to say of course. But Bruyneel has had a
fat budget to work with, a big talent in Lance, and a sponsor who didn't
demand all that much outside of success in July (ie, no need to ride the
Vuelta a Corporate Headquarters.) I'll be interested to see what JB
does with the team AL. Perhaps he will change my mind. For now, I'm
impressed by the results Riis gets out of the riders he has and his
knack for picking races and objectives where they can be successful.

jc wrote:

Yep, those were the names I was thinking of, as it happens. There's
plenty of talent there at T-Mobile, but it seems like anyone who
transfers there disappears.




Dumbass -

Oh that's what you meant. I thought you were claiming there was no
talent at T-Mobile.

K. Gringioni.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2005 21:03:23 -0700, sonarrat
wrote:


John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2005 13:53:51 GMT, Nev Shea
wrote:



"Robert Chung" wrote in
:



sonarrat wrote:


How many riders has Johan plucked from the anonymity of
the domestic scene and transformed into top-level athletes?

Hmmm. Okay, I give up: how many?

I suppose we could debate the definition of "top-level", but I'll name a
few Americans whose careers improved under Bruyneel:

Lance Armstrong -- After cancer nobody else wanted to hire him, and how
many TdFs did he even finish before Postal?

Floyd Landis -- I recall reading that he had been riding for Mercury for
free, and then they folded. So, like Lance, he had no job when they hired
him.



Sure what "top level" is is debateable, but no way could Armstrong be
considered anonymous -- he was a former pro world road champion and
even got 4th in the Tour of Spain before Bruyneel worked with him.

You're wrong there. He got 4th in the '98 Vuelta, post-cancer, on USPS.
Nobody thought he could have been a GT contender beforehand. Eddy
Merckx (I think) told him if he wanted to even think about it, he would
need to lose a lot of weight.


I think Landis won or placed highly in the Tour of Langkawi before he
joined USPS. That's not domestic anonymity.

Langkawi is not a prestigious race now, and was even less so then.
Landis was also a former MTB rider. He's not really who I was thinking
of, anyway.



I'm not arguing about how prestigious it is other than that it is not
domestics anonymity. I'm saying he was not in domestic anonymity.
Don't shif the goalposts.

Here are 4 more though I don't know what they were doing before working
for Postal:

Tyler Hamilton

2nd in a Tour de France TT before Armstrong was the USPS GC leader.
That is not anonymous.

A surprise performance that followed two years of total anonymity after
his signing with USPS in '96.


The argument was about Bruyneel, not USPS. Bruyneel was not with the
team at the time.

My argument held to there, then. Even though I've been into the sport
for several years now, I'm still young, I'm still learning and I'm
willing to experiment and be wrong. It's not like there's any
credibility to lose on Usenet.

Anyway, that still leaves Zabriskie and Leipheimer, and arguably Danielson.

-Sonarrat.

amit wrote:

other than vino i can't think of a case where they took a promising
rider from another team to the next level.

Riis 96?

;-)

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 300+80GB Disk, 8xDVD+/-RW, Bluetooth
mus+tastatur, R9600Pro, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT

Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
amit wrote:

other than vino i can't think of a case where they took a promising
rider from another team to the next level.

Riis 96?

;-)

yeah! if you want to talk about ancient history.

amit wrote:

Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
amit wrote:

other than vino i can't think of a case where they took a promising
rider from another team to the next level.

Riis 96?

;-)

yeah! if you want to talk about ancient history.

in fact its the other way around - Riis took the team to another level.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

PowerMac G5: 1.6GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 300+80GB Disk, 8xDVD+/-RW, Bluetooth
mus+tastatur, R9600Pro, iSight, eyeTV200 & LaCie Photon18Vision TFT