#1
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"Carbon" tires
I'm a high-mileage roadie and most of my miles are on tar and gravel roads
that eat up tires. I refuse to pay $40 and $50 for tires. I buy whatever looks halfway decent and is on closeout. Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23 which seems really light. Is that the feature of carbon? Lightness? Is it just marketing jazz or is there anything beneficial about having carbon? Separate question ... Performance had this closeout on Pariba Pro Evolution road tires. I think I got three tires for about $40. They've been excellent tires. They're durable, have a wonderful ride and, the price was right. Now I need to get some more and Performance doesn't carry them anymore. Neither does anyone else that I can find. I can't even come up with anything on Pariba on a Google search. I know they're affiliated with Vredestein, but that's about all I can find out. I'd sure like to find more of these tires. Bob C. |
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#2
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"Carbon" tires
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:21:44 -0500, psycholist wrote:
I'm a high-mileage roadie and most of my miles are on tar and gravel roads that eat up tires. I refuse to pay $40 and $50 for tires. I buy whatever looks halfway decent and is on closeout. Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23 which seems really light. Is that the feature of carbon? Lightness? Is it just marketing jazz or is there anything beneficial about having carbon? These are good tires. You don't want 'em? I do. But the carbon (to be specific, they advertise a particular isotope....) is the additive to the rubber compound to make it more durable. Carbon is far better than silicon, in that it holds the road better. Not lighter, though, at least not significantly. The kevlar bead is lighter than steel, by about 30g. I don't use the folding version usually, but I*only ride Avocet tires. They are very nice, and a good value. Like I said, if you don't want them, I'll refund what you paid for them. -- David L. Johnson __o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you _`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca). |
#3
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"Carbon" tires
psycholist wrote:
Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23 which seems really light. Which LBS, and do they have any more left? That's a great price for Avocets. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/ |
#4
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"Carbon" tires
"psycholist" writes:
I'm a high-mileage roadie and most of my miles are on tar and gravel roads that eat up tires. I refuse to pay $40 and $50 for tires. I buy whatever looks halfway decent and is on closeout. Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23 which seems really light. Is that the feature of carbon? Lightness? Is it just marketing jazz or is there anything beneficial about having carbon? Tire rubber is not pure rubber, it has additives. The additive of carbon black has been present in tires for decades, it is what makes the rubber harder and more durable and improves wet traction. It also makes the rubber black (see latex surgical rubber tube for the "natural" color of latex rubber). A few years ago, some tire manufacturers decided to market colored tires and used silica instead of carbon black, as this permitted the use of dyes to color the rubber. This resulted also in rubber that is a little more stretchable and flexible, with results in theoretically lower rolling resistance. They sold millions of the things. The downside is that they wear much more rapidly and tend to have poor wet traction. Avocet decided to fight back by ramping up the marketing spin of their carbon-based rubber compound, which is excellent and has worked well for years. Michelin has followed this lead to an extent, probably in part because there has been an extensive public discussion of the deficiencies of slica-based rubbers. |
#5
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"Carbon" tires
Terry Morse wrote:
psycholist wrote: Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23 which seems really light. Which LBS, and do they have any more left? That's a great price for Avocets. Yeah, no kidding. Where can I get some? Matt O. |
#6
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"Carbon" tires
Thanks for all the replies. I've been a huge fan of Avocet tires for years.
My LBS hated me 'cuz I went through more tires than anyone else, but I wouldn't buy his high-zoot tires. I'd only buy his $25 Avocet Fasgrip TT 30s. They're my standby tire. But, as I said, I'm always looking for cheaper closeouts. The Avocets he sold me yesterday were the only two he had and nobody but me would buy them. He was about to send them back to the distributor when I showed up and took them off his hands. I got into Avocet Fasgrip TT 30 tires a couple of years ago after I read a post by Jobst Brandt where he recommended them for their light weight AND high durability. Compared to what I'd been riding before, he was certainly right. Bob C. |
#7
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"Carbon" tires
psycholist wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. I've been a huge fan of Avocet tires for years. My LBS hated me 'cuz I went through more tires than anyone else, but I wouldn't buy his high-zoot tires. I'd only buy his $25 Avocet Fasgrip TT 30s. They're my standby tire. But, as I said, I'm always looking for cheaper closeouts. The Avocets he sold me yesterday were the only two he had and nobody but me would buy them. He was about to send them back to the distributor when I showed up and took them off his hands. I got into Avocet Fasgrip TT 30 tires a couple of years ago after I read a post by Jobst Brandt where he recommended them for their light weight AND high durability. Compared to what I'd been riding before, he was certainly right. FWIW, I've seen a bunch of these on eBay recently, for like $15.00 a pair. However, they were 20mm, which is too skinny for me, plus they were NOS, 15 years old -- not good for a rubber product. Indeed, the 25mm ones that Jobst likes are my favorites too. I had them on my last bike, and they were the best I'd ever used. My current, supposedly superfast Vittorias are no faster, don't inspire as much confidence on descents, and probably won't last half as long. I know what I'll be replacing them with! Getting back to tires labeled "carbon" -- usually it refers to the tread, but I think some (Hutchinson?) may actually have some carbon fiber in the casing. Of course it's all for show, and doesn't make a dime's worth of difference. Unfortunately this makes it unclear whether there's carbon in the tread, which you *do* want. Matt O. |
#8
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"Carbon" tires
Tim McNamara wrote in message ...
Avocet decided to fight back by ramping up the marketing spin of their carbon-based rubber compound, which is excellent and has worked well for years. Michelin has followed this lead to an extent, probably in part because there has been an extensive public discussion of the deficiencies of slica-based rubbers. Agree, the japanese made Avocet Fasgrip ROAD 30 700x28 (now accurately relabeled to 700x25) are also my favorite tires and I still have a small stash. When my stash of japanese Avocet tires are used up, I thought about trying out the *new* Michelin carbon 700x25 tires as I haven't heard positive things about the newer korean made Avocet Carbon 12 tires. Danny at crit usa had the Michelin carbon 700x23 and 700x25 for like $24 each shipped. However, thanks to the strength of the dollar, way to go Bush, prices have really gone up as he now sells them for something like $33 each PLUS shipping, sigh.... |
#9
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"Carbon" tires
My LBS hated me 'cuz I went through more tires than anyone else, but I
wouldn't buy his high-zoot tires. I'd only buy his $25 Avocet Fasgrip TT Tho' one must wonder, if you go through "more" tires @ $25 per. vs. purchasing a better quality tire which would "possibly" last longer at $50 per...well, you do the math. One thing I "will" guarantee, that no one in retail would ever "hate" you for moving merchandise out the door. |
#10
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"Carbon" tires
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