Avocet Touring Tires

On 29 jul 2004, Sheldon Brown wrote:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

--
Størker Moe
'86 DBS 5-speed, '97 GT Avalanche, '98 Trek 800, '01 Trek Fuel 90

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no
WWW http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

I pontificated:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

St=F8rker Moe asked:
=20
I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar=20
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike =

tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

It is very counterintuitive to ride on smooth tires. Most people, when=20
they see slick tires, the first thing that goes through their head is=20
the thought that they must be very slippery in wet conditions.

It's easier to cater to this misconception than to try to educate=20
potential customers.

I remember selling the Bridgestone RB-T touring bike back in the 90s,=20
which came with Avocet Duro tires (28 mm, marked 32 back then.)

When you would show the bike to a customer the first thing they would=20
say was "aren't those tires slippery in wet conditions?"

If you could get them to test ride the bike, they were liable to fall in =

love with the way it rode. They would usualy attribute this to some=20
magical quality of the frame design or materials. Mant customers would=20
insist that the tires be swapped out before they'd take delivery...

Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| You can get more with a kind word and a gun |
| than you can with a kind word alone. |
| -- Al Capone |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

I pontificated:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

St=F8rker Moe asked:
=20
I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar=20
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike =

tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

It is very counterintuitive to ride on smooth tires. Most people, when=20
they see slick tires, the first thing that goes through their head is=20
the thought that they must be very slippery in wet conditions.

It's easier to cater to this misconception than to try to educate=20
potential customers.

I remember selling the Bridgestone RB-T touring bike back in the 90s,=20
which came with Avocet Duro tires (28 mm, marked 32 back then.)

When you would show the bike to a customer the first thing they would=20
say was "aren't those tires slippery in wet conditions?"

If you could get them to test ride the bike, they were liable to fall in =

love with the way it rode. They would usualy attribute this to some=20
magical quality of the frame design or materials. Mant customers would=20
insist that the tires be swapped out before they'd take delivery...

Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| You can get more with a kind word and a gun |
| than you can with a kind word alone. |
| -- Al Capone |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Sheldon Brown" wrote in message
...
I pontificated:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

Størker Moe asked:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

It is very counterintuitive to ride on smooth tires. Most people, when
they see slick tires, the first thing that goes through their head is
the thought that they must be very slippery in wet conditions.

It's easier to cater to this misconception than to try to educate
potential customers.

I remember selling the Bridgestone RB-T touring bike back in the 90s,
which came with Avocet Duro tires (28 mm, marked 32 back then.)

When you would show the bike to a customer the first thing they would
say was "aren't those tires slippery in wet conditions?"

If you could get them to test ride the bike, they were liable to fall in
love with the way it rode. They would usualy attribute this to some
magical quality of the frame design or materials. Mant customers would
insist that the tires be swapped out before they'd take delivery...

Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown

Again, Sheldon is right on point. Maybe Moe should also read the Bicycle
FAQ:

Tires with smooth treads (aka slicks):

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-fa...ection-11.html

"Sheldon Brown" wrote in message
...
I pontificated:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

Størker Moe asked:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.

It is very counterintuitive to ride on smooth tires. Most people, when
they see slick tires, the first thing that goes through their head is
the thought that they must be very slippery in wet conditions.

It's easier to cater to this misconception than to try to educate
potential customers.

I remember selling the Bridgestone RB-T touring bike back in the 90s,
which came with Avocet Duro tires (28 mm, marked 32 back then.)

When you would show the bike to a customer the first thing they would
say was "aren't those tires slippery in wet conditions?"

If you could get them to test ride the bike, they were liable to fall in
love with the way it rode. They would usualy attribute this to some
magical quality of the frame design or materials. Mant customers would
insist that the tires be swapped out before they'd take delivery...

Sheldon "Bald Is Beautiful" Brown

Again, Sheldon is right on point. Maybe Moe should also read the Bicycle
FAQ:

Tires with smooth treads (aka slicks):

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-fa...ection-11.html

In article ,
Sheldon Brown wrote:

I pontificated:

hydroplaning is impossible for bicycles

Størker Moe asked:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do almost all tires for flat-bar
bikes have tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or 28" non-racer bike
tire) with a smooth surface...

In a word: marketing.


No, it's because flat bar bikes are mountain bikes or hybrids, meant to
be ridden on dirt. Slicks work poorly on dirt but great on pavement.

--
Mike DeMicco
(Remove the REMOVE_THIS from my email address to reply.)

David L. Johnson wrote in message ...

Hydroplaning is a perfectly reasonable term for the phenomenon, and it has
not happened to you riding a bicycle.

I am also certain that the above respondent was not with me on the said
journey of which I bear testament. The respondent has no knowledge of my
experience other than what has been presented to this newsgroup. Ignorance
of the facts, whether with intent for the purpose of callous jibes or
otherwise, cannot in any way whatsoever be termed as evidence. The
repetition of falsehoods does not bring them any nearer to fact than the
infinitesimal distance that they stood fifteen years previously.
I experienced aquaplaning whilst riding a bicycle. The speed was
approx. 40mph, on a decline with 20-25mm standing water. Tyre section was
25-28mm, pressure 90psi tyres were most probably Michelin HI-LITES 700x25c
rim Super Champion Mixte.
Treaded tyres of the same construction and materials have an enhanced
grip, in the wet, over their otherwise similar non-treaded brethren. The
raised portion of the tread gives a higher pressure contact patch than is
possible with a bald tyre. The regions of high pressure force the water
between the road surface and the tyre to migrate to the areas of low
pressure thus allowing the tyre to contact the road and provide stiction.
Directional stability of the wheel is assured in usual wet conditions due to
the tyre contact patch being of good length.
In order for a bald tyre to function in the wet, extreme inflation
pressure is required to attempt to match the penetrative qualities of a
treaded tyre with its associated regions of high pressure. The extreme
inflation pressure shortens the tyre contact patch to a length where
insufficient lateral stability of the tyre is available resulting in
skittish behaviour in the dry and sideslip in the wet though corners. The
above is assuming a nominal wheel diameter of 27", riders of 48" wheels and
above may find adequacy in bald, hard and narrow tyres.
Lower inflation pressures are also more comfortable, which translates
to less rider stress, which allows greater mileage and speed per ride, per
period, per season.
TJ

Trevor Jeffrey wrote:
David L. Johnson wrote in message ...
Hydroplaning is a perfectly reasonable term for the phenomenon, and it has
not happened to you riding a bicycle.
I am also certain that the above respondent was not with me on the said
journey of which I bear testament. The respondent has no knowledge of my
experience other than what has been presented to this newsgroup.

Big deal. If you told us you'd rode along the flat at 70mph and jumped to
the moon, that would be physically impossible too.

I experienced aquaplaning whilst riding a bicycle.

No, you didn't. A total loss of wheel traction on a single-track vehicle
will result in an immediate sideways fall.
--
David Damerell Distortion Field!

| I experienced aquaplaning whilst riding a bicycle.
|
|No, you didn't. A total loss of wheel traction on a single-track vehicle
|will result in an immediate sideways fall.

Simple "loss of traction" does not ordinarily cause a rapidly traveling
vehicle to suddenly fall on its side and take a spill. For instance,
airplanes lose traction all the time, and they tend to leap into the air
instead, often flying up into the wild blue yonder. It has something
to do with conservation of momentum, and the bicycle's tendency to
follow the path that its inertia dictates.

St=F8rker Moe asked:

I don't disbelieve you, but why then do
almost all tires for flat-bar bikes have
tread? I've hardly seen any 26" tire (or
28" non-racer bike tire) with a smooth
surface...

Marketing. In this "automobized" world, people have come to believe that
_all_ tires need something to channel away water in wet conditions.
While this is true for a flat surfaced car tire, which can skim across a
wet surface (like a water ski does), it does not hold true for a round
profiled one, which simply pushes water aside as it contacts the
surface, like a snow plow.

Now conceivablly you could go fast enough that the water doesn't have
enough time to "get out of the way", but that speed must be ferociously
fast. Just how fast would a deep-V boat hull have to go before it can
completely aquaplane? That is ALL of it's hull on top of the water (no
wake)?

I have ridden bike tires with tread, both standard and inverted, and
without. There is no difference in wet traction that have discerned.
What the tread is made out of (rubber composition and stickyness) is
what makes the main difference in bike tires.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner