|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Tom Sherman wrote in message ... Sheldon Brown wrote: ... Hydroplaning is an issue for cars and motorcycles (though a rare one: in my 44 years of driving, I've only experienced hydroplaning once.).... This proves that Mr. Brown is not sufficiently crazy with the use of the "loud pedal". -- Tom Sherman – Quad City Area In 20 years of driving I have never experienced hydroplaning. Aquaplaning many times. I enjoyed overtaking Porches especially and would push that bit harder until loss of steering became apparent, lovely smooth ride. Previous employment required approx.. 70,000 miles per year driving quickly, mostly on minor roads. With such intensive amount of high speed driving I learnt very quickly how far I could push different vehicles. Learnt and used handling characteristics to drive underpowered vehicles sometimes overloaded at maximum safe speed. Sufficiently crazy, I'd say so. TJ |
Ads |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Trevor Jeffrey wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote in message ... Sheldon Brown wrote: ... Hydroplaning is an issue for cars and motorcycles (though a rare one: in my 44 years of driving, I've only experienced hydroplaning once.).... This proves that Mr. Brown is not sufficiently crazy with the use of the "loud pedal". In 20 years of driving I have never experienced hydroplaning. Aquaplaning many times. That's funny, considering these are both accepted words for describing the same phenomenon. You're not one of those peddants, are you? -- Benjamin Lewis Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing. -- James Thurber |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Peter wrote in message ... The rule developed for estimating when hydroplaning conditions exist for landing planes which have smooth tires is that V(mph) = 10 * tire pressure (psi). At what depth of standing water? Is this just for a film of water? It must be taken into account that the usual standard for airstrip construction is higher than that encountered on roads. So any tyre is likely to perform better on a landing strip than on the road due to the enhanced drainage of the landing strip. TJ |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Benjamin Lewis wrote:
wrote: Not really interested in working out a derivation. If you are I'd suggest starting by considering the force required to move the water out of the way and what's available from the pressure of the tire. I was asking for a citation, not a theoretical derivation. Where did you get this formula from? Did they publish the data with which they derived it? I don't have it at hand, but a place to look would be: Horne, Walter B., NASA Langley Research Center, "Skidding Accidents on Runways and Highways Can be Reduced," Astronautics & Aeronautics, August 1967. Don't know if this has the technical derivation, but one would probably be included in the references provided in this paper. The formula is commonly used in connection with pilot training. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Tim McNamara wrote:
John Forrest Tomlinson writes: wrote: A total loss of wheel traction on a single-track vehicle will result in an immediate sideways fall. I've skidded both wheels momentarily without falling. Isn't that a total loss of traction? No, that's merely insufficient traction for everything you're trying to do, and doesn't preclude there being sufficient to keep the wheels under the bike. No, it's a partial loss. Try riding your bike on wet ice for a good sense of total loss of traction. Even wet ice offers more grip than the macroscopic layer of water present when a vehicle aquaplanes. -- David Damerell Distortion Field! |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Robert wrote:
Loss of grip when cornering or braking is one thing. Increase of slip angle is what happens in the wet, when cornering. But you people must be a completely different class of riders to be able to go so quickly that you can cause genuine aquaplaning, and then live to tell the story. Who are us people, plural? Only one person has claimed this. -- David Damerell Distortion Field! |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
David Damerell wrote:
Robert wrote: .. . . you people must be a completely different class of riders to be able to go so quickly that .. . . you can cause genuine aquaplaning, .. . . Who are us people, plural? Only one person has claimed this. Quite right. I stand corrected. /Robert |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
David Damerell wrote in message ... Even wet ice offers more grip than the macroscopic layer of water present when a vehicle aquaplanes. And fails to understand what he wrote himself. TJ |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
foldedpath wrote in message ... And extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You're the one claiming you experienced hydroplaning on a bike. Maybe it would help advance the discussion if you went into more detail about that? You've mentioned what you think the water depth was, and your speed. What happened to the bike? Did your rear wheel suddenly start spinning faster? Did you brake and lock the front wheel while still moving forward in a straight line? Did you slide out of control? What led you to think you were hydroplaning? I was freewheeling downhill, I locked the front wheel with only a light touch of the brake, I maintained balance through steering whilst the front wheel was still locked up without loss of speed. If it was a skid I'd have pitched over the handlebars. the bike drifted towards the gutter, so I released brake. There was no snatch at the steering it took maybe a second for the wheel to get up speed. There where no leaves dirt or oil, and it was sleeting. If you dont think it's aquaplaning because there was hail mixed with the rain well that's your misunderstanding.. One reason I'm skeptical is that loss of traction can be caused by many things, like dirt and other materials mixed with water. The streets in my neighborhood are extra slippery in the first half hour or so of rainfall after an extended dry spell. The accumulated dust, vehicle oil drops and water combine to make an emulsion film on the road. I notice this when driving a car as well as a bike, and I'm a extra careful when braking even at low speeds. It has nothing to do with hydroplaning. If I was riding down a hill and hit a flat spot with a thin film of water and lost traction, I'm not sure I'd automatically assume this was hydroplaning, unless all the other possibilities were definitely ruled out. -- Mike Barrs |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Avocet Touring Tires
Trevor Jeffrey wrote:
---8----cut of the brake, I maintained balance through steering whilst the front wheel was still locked up without loss of speed. If it was a skid I'd have pitched over the handlebars. No. No. No. Skidding does not mean that you were aquaplaning. That you did not lose speed during the braking does not mean that you were aquaplaning either. It just means that the coefficient of friction for your tyre on that (wet) surface was pretty close to zero. The small contact area of the tyre on the road will ensure that you will always have contact with the road, assuming that the road is close to level, i.e. does not fall away sharply. What determines your not going end over end is that the coefficient of friction of the tyre against road surface was not high enough for you to lift the back wheel. But that will not be aquaplaning, since the front tyre will still be in contact with the road, regardless of the water. Bike tyres are that thin . . . (won't repeat here what 30 or so posters have already tried to tell you). Finally, your statement, "If it was a skid I'd have pitched over the handlebars": It's when your front wheel does *not* skid, that you risk going over the bars. Coefficient of friction reduces significantly during a skid, due to the disintegration of the rubber. When you skid the front, then you will either fall on your side, or, if you are quick enough to release the brake (as you apparently did - well done), recover, assuming that you weren't leaning too hard during the lockup. HTH /Robert |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Avocet tires on non-hook bead rims? | Frank Krygowski | Techniques | 1 | June 22nd 04 09:31 PM |
Puckering of 2 Avocet 28mm tires with Kevlar belt | Gary Young | Techniques | 14 | June 4th 04 09:15 AM |
"Carbon" tires | psycholist | Techniques | 34 | January 28th 04 07:45 AM |