Liggett questions Ullrich's sportsmanship

In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race – they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I guess Phil's suggesting that Jan's desire to win a second Tour
should have outweighed his feelings of fair play. That's not very
sporting, is it, Phil?

Seems to me I also noticed Tyler Hamilton yelling at Jan and the
others to make sure everyone held up for Lance to get back.

That was some race this morning.

Tony Ortega
Phoenix, Arizona

I see your point, but in the heat of the moment, I bet it was a tough
decision.
Could be that had Jan known lance had the legs today, his decision might
have been
different. There is a fine line between sportsmanship and foolishness. Just
an observation.

"Tony Ortega" wrote in message
om...
In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race - they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I guess Phil's suggesting that Jan's desire to win a second Tour
should have outweighed his feelings of fair play. That's not very
sporting, is it, Phil?

Seems to me I also noticed Tyler Hamilton yelling at Jan and the
others to make sure everyone held up for Lance to get back.

That was some race this morning.

Tony Ortega
Phoenix, Arizona

Seems to me there is special treatment for the leader of the race. Would
that have made the difference here?

Tony Ortega wrote:

In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race – they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I guess Phil's suggesting that Jan's desire to win a second Tour
should have outweighed his feelings of fair play. That's not very
sporting, is it, Phil?

Seems to me I also noticed Tyler Hamilton yelling at Jan and the
others to make sure everyone held up for Lance to get back.

That was some race this morning.

Tony Ortega
Phoenix, Arizona

Tony Ortega wrote:

In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race - they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I guess Phil's suggesting that Jan's desire to win a second Tour
should have outweighed his feelings of fair play. That's not very
sporting, is it, Phil?

Seems to me I also noticed Tyler Hamilton yelling at Jan and the
others to make sure everyone held up for Lance to get back.

That was some race this morning.

Tony Ortega
Phoenix, Arizona

Regardless of what the Ulrich/Lance bashers have to say, this has
been one HELL of a Centenary Tour! I can't wait to hear from a buddy
of mine who went over to watch the Mountain stages. I am also ordering
the DVD (extended play) the minute it is available.

To Lance, Jan, and Vino: Bravo! Well done lads!

Joe
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On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:42:49 GMT, "Brian P"
wrote:

I see your point, but in the heat of the moment, I bet it was a tough
decision.
Could be that had Jan known lance had the legs today, his decision might
have been
different. There is a fine line between sportsmanship and foolishness. Just
an observation.

Jan clearly hesistated, even before the gesture of Hamilton.

I think he very wel realized that he could not win this etappe, by
ignoring the unwritten law. Everybody knows Lance has a good memory,
he would never forgive this.

And everybody could see how motivated Lance was after this bad luck.
Can you imagine how he would have reacted if Jan didn't wait for him?
First, the gap between the two at the fnish would be doubled, at
least. Second, Lance would be flying, next saterday.




Groet,
Arne Vogel

I think Ullrich made a huge tactical error. He should have attacked. Sure
Lance waited for him 2 years ago. But I beleive Lance already have several
minutes on Jan at that time. I bet if the time difference was 15 seconds 2
years ago, Lance would have attacked after Jan spilled

I think Lance used his spill today the best he could. The group waited for
him, then he attacked the group minutes later. Tactically, he rode a great
race.


"Gary" wrote in message
...
Seems to me there is special treatment for the leader of the race. Would
that have made the difference here?

Tony Ortega wrote:

In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race – they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I guess Phil's suggesting that Jan's desire to win a second Tour
should have outweighed his feelings of fair play. That's not very
sporting, is it, Phil?

Seems to me I also noticed Tyler Hamilton yelling at Jan and the
others to make sure everyone held up for Lance to get back.

That was some race this morning.

Tony Ortega
Phoenix, Arizona

Tony Ortega wrote:
In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race – they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)


http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/det...es/4620.1.html

As for Ullrich, he resigned himself to the day's loss. "It's only fair
that we waited for Armstrong," he said. "I don't think I lost any of my
rhythm. It was nice to catch my breath. Lance was the strongest today,
you have to give him credit. There's still a time trial left, so the
Tour is not over."

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"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Joseph Cipale wrote in :

snip

of mine who went over to watch the Mountain stages. I am also ordering
the DVD (extended play) the minute it is available.

Screw that!!!
Save your money and go see the IMAX instead.

- Boyd S.

zeno wrote:
What you say is an assumption based on a fanciful scenario. The fact is
that Armstrong did wait for Jan. Whatever else you might say about Jan,
he has always struck me as an honorable fellow and would feel honor
bound to return the gesture.

What was the incident they kept referring back to where Jan had a flat? It
seemed that they stressed this far more than the Ride into the "void".

Plus, if Jan had not waited, his memory would still be excoriated long
after his death.

zeno

Bob Wong wrote:
I think Ullrich made a huge tactical error. He should have attacked. Sure
Lance waited for him 2 years ago. But I beleive Lance already have several
minutes on Jan at that time. I bet if the time difference was 15 seconds 2
years ago, Lance would have attacked after Jan spilled

I think Lance used his spill today the best he could. The group waited for
him, then he attacked the group minutes later. Tactically, he rode a great
race.


"Gary" wrote in message
...

Seems to me there is special treatment for the leader of the race. Would
that have made the difference here?

Tony Ortega wrote:


In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race – they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)

I guess Phil's suggesting that Jan's desire to win a second Tour
should have outweighed his feelings of fair play. That's not very
sporting, is it, Phil?

Seems to me I also noticed Tyler Hamilton yelling at Jan and the
others to make sure everyone held up for Lance to get back.

That was some race this morning.

Tony Ortega
Phoenix, Arizona

Obviously Ullrich would have been better off continuing. But he still
gained a benefit from slowing, he still gained recovery. If you've
ever climbed where you had to stop, you've experienced this. You stop
for, for example, 10 seconds to take a , well, never mind, then get
going again and you quickly close most of the gap, because of the rest.

I think w/o the crash, Armstrong would have won the stage anyway, by
either more or less or the same time, there's no way to say.

Dan

Raptor wrote:
Tony Ortega wrote:

In his daily diary entry today, Phil Liggett suggested that Jan should
not have felt obliged to wait after Lance crashed on the climb up
Luz-Ardiden. Everyone, of course, remembers the incident two years
ago, when Lance waited after Jan went off the road on a descent.
Rather than take advantage of Jan's spill, Lance waited for the German
to catch up.

But Phil points out that that moment came on a descent, and that it
happened at a less crucial time: "Two years ago, it was a great
gesture, but of little importance to the race – they were going
downhill. This time, Ullrich lost all his rhythm and he can never
accelerate like Lance." (http://www.olntv.com/tdf03/liggett15.html)



http://www.velonews.com/tour2003/det...es/4620.1.html

As for Ullrich, he resigned himself to the day's loss. "It's only fair
that we waited for Armstrong," he said. "I don't think I lost any of my
rhythm. It was nice to catch my breath. Lance was the strongest today,
you have to give him credit. There's still a time trial left, so the
Tour is not over."