I'm missing something (headset)

My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last month.
The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign that I
didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless headset
isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I roll the
bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the bike;
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged ball
bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I took the
headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease and put in
some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put it back
together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem to be
happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't figure
it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place, I can lift the
front up and the whole fork drops down a couple-three millimeters. Enough
to make it feel loose.

Forgive me if I am not explaining this well.

So, embarrassing as this is for me to admit it, this simple little
collection of parts has me buffaloed. What's the trick?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On Apr 10, 7:43 pm, Mike Elliott
wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last month.
The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign that I
didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless headset
isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I roll the
bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the bike;http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged ball
bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I took the
headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease and put in
some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put it back
together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem to be
happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't figure
it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place

Do you mean tightening (clamping) the stem to the steerer tube? Is
there a cap on top of the steerer with a bolt for adjusting preload
that pulls up on the steerer by a star nut stuck down in there?

On 4/10/2010 7:59 PM Dan O wrote:

On Apr 10, 7:43 pm, Mike
wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last month.
The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign that I
didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless headset
isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I roll the
bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the bike;http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged ball
bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I took the
headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease and put in
some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put it back
together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem to be
happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't figure
it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place

Do you mean tightening (clamping) the stem to the steerer tube? Is
there a cap on top of the steerer with a bolt for adjusting preload
that pulls up on the steerer by a star nut stuck down in there?

Yes, there is a cap on top with a bolt going down into a captive nut down
there. I thought that star nut was just for holding the bolt in place
which in turn holds the cap in place atop the stem. So your question tells
me that there's something about the assembly I don't understand.



--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On Apr 10, 8:29 pm, Mike Elliott
wrote:
On 4/10/2010 7:59 PM Dan O wrote:



On Apr 10, 7:43 pm, Mike
wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last month.
The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign that I
didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless headset
isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I roll the
bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the bike;http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged ball
bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I took the
headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease and put in
some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put it back
together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem to be
happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't figure
it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place

Do you mean tightening (clamping) the stem to the steerer tube? Is
there a cap on top of the steerer with a bolt for adjusting preload
that pulls up on the steerer by a star nut stuck down in there?

Yes, there is a cap on top with a bolt going down into a captive nut down
there. I thought that star nut was just for holding the bolt in place
which in turn holds the cap in place atop the stem. So your question tells
me that there's something about the assembly I don't understand.


Threadless headsets are new for me, too. But yeah, that screw on top
is what you use to adjust the bearings while the stem clamp is
loosened around the steerer tube. Then you tighten the stem clamp to
hold the adjustment. Then the adjusting screw on top doesn't really
matter anymore, but yeah - holds the cap on for neat appearances (I
back mine off at that point and then tighten it just snug enough to
stay put).

Probably the Park Tools web site has the details. Ah, yes:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65

Have you got enough spacers on there? (Gap at top?)

Mike Elliott wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last
month. The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign
that I didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless
headset isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I
roll the bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the
bike;
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged
ball bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I
took the headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease
and put in some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put
it back together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem
to be happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't
figure it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place, I can lift the
front up and the whole fork drops down a couple-three millimeters.
Enough to make it feel loose.

Forgive me if I am not explaining this well.

So, embarrassing as this is for me to admit it, this simple little
collection of parts has me buffaloed. What's the trick?


perhaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQT2A_X-JvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQas...eature=related

Insufficient spacers under stem? Missing or misplaced
centering cone just above top race?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/10/2010 9:02 PM Dan O wrote:

On Apr 10, 8:29 pm, Mike
wrote:
On 4/10/2010 7:59 PM Dan O wrote:



On Apr 10, 7:43 pm, Mike
wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last month.
The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign that I
didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless headset
isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I roll the
bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the bike;http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged ball
bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I took the
headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease and put in
some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put it back
together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem to be
happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't figure
it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place

Do you mean tightening (clamping) the stem to the steerer tube? Is
there a cap on top of the steerer with a bolt for adjusting preload
that pulls up on the steerer by a star nut stuck down in there?

Yes, there is a cap on top with a bolt going down into a captive nut down
there. I thought that star nut was just for holding the bolt in place
which in turn holds the cap in place atop the stem. So your question tells
me that there's something about the assembly I don't understand.


Threadless headsets are new for me, too. But yeah, that screw on top
is what you use to adjust the bearings while the stem clamp is
loosened around the steerer tube. Then you tighten the stem clamp to
hold the adjustment. Then the adjusting screw on top doesn't really
matter anymore, but yeah - holds the cap on for neat appearances (I
back mine off at that point and then tighten it just snug enough to
stay put).

Probably the Park Tools web site has the details. Ah, yes:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65

Have you got enough spacers on there? (Gap at top?)

Hey Dan, thanks, man! I'll have another go at the headset tomorrow. It
hasn't gotten the best of me yet.

Gap at top not possible, using one of these:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=12812

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On 4/10/2010 9:24 PM AMuzi wrote:

Mike Elliott wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last
month. The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a
sign that I didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the
threadless headset isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is
play if I roll the bike back and forth with the front brake locked.
Here's the bike;
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged
ball bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I
took the headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory
grease and put in some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain
that I put it back together correctly, everything in order, and all
the parts seem to be happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't
figure it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on
the frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and
downward pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check
to make sure that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But
after tightening the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in
place, I can lift the front up and the whole fork drops down a
couple-three millimeters. Enough to make it feel loose.

Forgive me if I am not explaining this well.

So, embarrassing as this is for me to admit it, this simple little
collection of parts has me buffaloed. What's the trick?


perhaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQT2A_X-JvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQas...eature=related

Insufficient spacers under stem? Missing or misplaced centering cone
just above top race?


Thanks for the links!

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On Apr 10, 9:33*pm, Mike Elliott
wrote:
On 4/10/2010 9:02 PM Dan O wrote:





On Apr 10, 8:29 pm, Mike
wrote:
On 4/10/2010 7:59 PM Dan O wrote:

On Apr 10, 7:43 pm, Mike
wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last month.
The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a sign that I
didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the threadless headset
isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is play if I roll the
bike back and forth with the front brake locked. Here's the bike;http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged ball
bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I took the
headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory grease and put in
some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain that I put it back
together correctly, everything in order, and all the parts seem to be
happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't figure
it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on the
frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and downward
pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check to make sure
that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But after tightening
the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in place

Do you mean tightening (clamping) the stem to the steerer tube? *Is
there a cap on top of the steerer with a bolt for adjusting preload
that pulls up on the steerer by a star nut stuck down in there?

Yes, there is a cap on top with a bolt going down into a captive nut down
there. I thought that star nut was just for holding the bolt in place
which in turn holds the cap in place atop the stem. So your question tells
me that there's something about the assembly I don't understand.

Threadless headsets are new for me, too. *But yeah, that screw on top
is what you use to adjust the bearings while the stem clamp is
loosened around the steerer tube. *Then you tighten the stem clamp to
hold the adjustment. *Then the adjusting screw on top doesn't really
matter anymore, but yeah - holds the cap on for neat appearances (I
back mine off at that point and then tighten it just snug enough to
stay put).

Probably the Park Tools web site has the details. *Ah, yes:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65

Have you got enough spacers on there? *(Gap at top?)

Hey Dan, thanks, man! I'll have another go at the headset tomorrow. It
hasn't gotten the best of me yet.

Gap at top not possible, using one of these:
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=12812

You'll have to make sure there is a gap inside the riser then -- the
right amount of spacers under the riser, so that the top edge of the
steer tube is slightly above the upper clamp bolt of the riser, yet
below where the riser necks inwards inside.

Oh, and while adjusting out the play it's now the riser clamp bolts
you need to have loose and not the stem clamp bolts.

Once you understand the principle I find working on threadless to be
far better than threaded headsets. No specialized big wrenches or
trial and error guessing games with thread lash.

pm

On Apr 10, 11:51*pm, Mike Elliott
wrote:
On 4/10/2010 9:24 PM AMuzi wrote:



Mike Elliott wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last
month. The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a
sign that I didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the
threadless headset isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is
play if I roll the bike back and forth with the front brake locked.
Here's the bike;
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516

It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged
ball bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I
took the headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory
grease and put in some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain
that I put it back together correctly, everything in order, and all
the parts seem to be happily fitting with each other.

This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't
figure it out.

With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on
the frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and
downward pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check
to make sure that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But
after tightening the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in
place, I can lift the front up and the whole fork drops down a
couple-three millimeters. Enough to make it feel loose.

Forgive me if I am not explaining this well.

So, embarrassing as this is for me to admit it, this simple little
collection of parts has me buffaloed. What's the trick?

perhaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQT2A_X-JvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQas...eature=related

Insufficient spacers under stem? Missing or misplaced centering cone
just above top race?

Thanks for the links!

If all that fails, do make sure that the cups are properly pressed
into the frame. Also make certain that the caged bearings aren't
installed upside down.

landotter wrote:
On Apr 10, 11:51 pm, Mike Elliott
wrote:
On 4/10/2010 9:24 PM AMuzi wrote:



Mike Elliott wrote:
My reader will recall that I built up a kit bike from Nashbar last
month. The assembly job went well, overall, the bike is rideable (a
sign that I didn't put something on backwards or anything) but the
threadless headset isn't right. I can't seem to get it tight, there is
play if I roll the bike back and forth with the front brake locked.
Here's the bike;
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__200516
It does not have cartridge bearings, there are upper and lower caged
ball bearings, the bearing races are pressed into the steerer tube. I
took the headset apart when I got the bike to remove the factory
grease and put in some decent grease. I'm 99 and 44/100ths certain
that I put it back together correctly, everything in order, and all
the parts seem to be happily fitting with each other.
This is a simple assembly, and it's frustrating to me that I can't
figure it out.
With the front wheel on the ground, I put a lot of downward force on
the frame to seat the lower race up into the steerer tube, and
downward pressure on the spacers to seat the upper bearings. I check
to make sure that the steerer is centered in the steering tube. But
after tightening the handlebar to the stem to keep the spacers in
place, I can lift the front up and the whole fork drops down a
couple-three millimeters. Enough to make it feel loose.
Forgive me if I am not explaining this well.
So, embarrassing as this is for me to admit it, this simple little
collection of parts has me buffaloed. What's the trick?
perhaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQT2A_X-JvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hQas...eature=related
Insufficient spacers under stem? Missing or misplaced centering cone
just above top race?
Thanks for the links!

If all that fails, do make sure that the cups are properly pressed
into the frame. Also make certain that the caged bearings aren't
installed upside down.

I did take care to put things back together in the order they were
removed and I do believe that I got them orientated correctly. They all
seem to fit with each other nicely. The caged bearings are turned the
right way around, too.

What I did not understand, so did not use for adjusting, is the
compression bolt. The bike has a Delta stem riser on it, which makes for
a slight modification to the procedure, as pm pointed out.

For my education, is there an exploded diagram of a typical threadless
headset with caged bearings online somewhere? It's helpful to get the
names of the bits right for clarity's sake if I have to come back and
ask for any more assistance.

Thanks to all for the help.