published helmet research - not troll

Benjamin Lewis writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

What I find even more curious is that a short, obscure paper written
by three guys is the only thing that ever gets mentioned by the
anti-helmet camp,

That's because it's pretty much the only statistic quoted by the anti-choice
camp. Or if it isn't, what other study shows this "85%" figure that I keep
seeing?

The "anti-helmet" camp, as you call it, also frequently mentions a number
of other studies, e.g. New Zealand & Australia.

I should have said that it is the only study showing a positive result
for helmet use that they mention.

The New Zealand one did not measure a benefit to helmet use by looking
at injuries, but the study could not track which injured cyclists wore
helmets and which didn't (someone emailed the author and asked about
that, and posted a summary of the response on rec.bicycles.soc.)
Instead they used independent surveys of cyclists that counted the
number who used helmets versus the number who didn't.

Helmet usage went up substantially after New Zealand passed a helmet
law, but this is not the same as "cyclist-miles" for those using
helmets and those who don't. Also, New Zealand has a tiny population,
which limits the accuracy of the results. The study that was on the
Snell site reported a factor of two or three difference in helmet
effectiveness based on how well the helmet fit the rider (including
strap adjustment.) The New Zealand study didn't control for that. It
showed that merely passing a helmet law doesn't help.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

"Just zis Guy, you know?" writes:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:04:04 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message :

whenever helmet laws are debated the helmet advocates
circulate as fact the TR&T findings that helmets prevent 85% of head
injuries and 88% of brain inhuries, both of which claims are bogus and
even the original authors no longer make them.

What I find even more curious is that a short, obscure paper written
by three guys is the only thing that ever gets mentioned by the
anti-helmet camp, treating it as the greatest threat to western
civilation since Atilla the Hun. Are they going to blame Osama next?

You are evidently even more ill-informed than Tom makes out.

This is not an "obscure" paper, it is the single most widely quoted
and influential piece of helmet research there is. I cannot recall a
subsequent paper or literature review which does not reference it, and
helmet campaigners almost always quote the 85% / 88% figures when
arguing for compulsion, presumably because they are so much bigger and
more impressive than the other studies.

Oh come off it. It gets cited because it was the first paper out
there, and it is customary to cite previous work in an area. If it was
viewed by other researchers as the definitive word on this topic, the
others wouldn't have published anything.

In the scheme of things, though, it *is* obscure. The whole subject
area is obscure. There are who knows how many gizmos out there with
safety implications. This is just one more study of one more gizmo.

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

"Just zis Guy, you know?" writes:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 03:00:12 GMT, Joe Riel wrote
in message :

"If I lock the front brake, the front wheel will skid.
The only time I've gone over the bars was when something got lodged in
the front wheel..."

Don't forget the bit about if I hit a car I hit feet-first. Feet
first only really happens on a recumbent :-)

No imagnation, I take it? To avoid a crash you can brake or turn, and
if you blow it and fall off your bike, you could go in feet first.

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Repeating it doesn't make it true.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

"Just zis Guy, you know?" writes:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:50:47 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message :

And where is the proof of this assertion???? You know, from an
impartial, independent source.

You want to be careful about using words like "impartial" and
"independent" - or don't you know where TR&T get their money from?

We were talking about a claim from a certain Ms. Robinson, not TR&T,
were we not????

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

"Just zis Guy, you know?" writes:

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:26:59 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message :


And I can track the visits in depth, the inside pages get many more
hits than the homepage. But whatever. At least it is a site which
some peopel find useful, mainly because I have done quite a bit of
work on understanding the helmet issue, which is a complex one.

Or you have a site with search/navigation so poor that people are
bouncing around all over the place trying to find something before
giving up, as one of a number of other explanations.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Bill Z. wrote:

Benjamin Lewis writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

The shape doesn't matter. All the matters in the position of the
center of mass relative to where the front tire touches the ground.

... and the shape significantly affects the position of the center of
mass.

No it doesn't: the predominant thing that affects the position of the
center of mass is the rider (in this case, a single one, sitting at
about the same position relative to the front wheel as on a mountain
or road bike.) The rest of the tandem is a small correction due to
the mass of the frame being far lower than the mass of the cyclist.

How small?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

Bill Z. wrote:

Benjamin Lewis writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

What I find even more curious is that a short, obscure paper written
by three guys is the only thing that ever gets mentioned by the
anti-helmet camp,

That's because it's pretty much the only statistic quoted by the
anti-choice camp. Or if it isn't, what other study shows this "85%"
figure that I keep seeing?

The "anti-helmet" camp, as you call it, also frequently mentions a
number of other studies, e.g. New Zealand & Australia.

I should have said that it is the only study showing a positive result
for helmet use that they mention.

Which other ones should they mention?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

In article , Bill Z.
wrote:

It wasn't clear if the line of cars was in a lane parallel to Dan's or
if it was on the cross street, nor was it clear if the left-turning
car was turning from the cross street or from an opposing lane on the
street Dan was riding on. I'll let Dan fill in the details if he
chooses.

Line of cars was in the left lane parallel to my movement in the right
lane of a four lane road (two lanes each way). The turning car was
turning left from the left lane of the opposite direction traffic
across my two lanes into a driveway on my right. A driver in a van
waved him through (when I do that to folks, I'm saying "I'm not going
to pull up, you can come in front of me"; the left-turning driver
thought he meant "the coast is clear, you can barrel through without
looking at all"), and with the van obscuring my view, he just appeared
in front of me. It was a small, low, foreign sedan.

The driver was cited for not seeing the way clear for a safe turning
movement.

Condescending comments or not, my riding style is different now, and
this situation would not reoccur for me. I thought I was safe by owning
the lane, but the confluence of factors demonstrated that I was not.

Dan

In article . net, Tom
Kunich wrote:

Dan what are the chances that had you not been wearing a helmet that your
head would have missed the ground since cracking indicates only a slight
grazing?

That is unknowable for certain, but judging from the skid marks on the
outer shell, I'd have had at the very minimum some serious headburn and
lost hair to go with my lost skin. The condition of the helmet
suggested to me that my head most certainly would have contacted the
pavement.

Dan

Benjamin Lewis writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

Benjamin Lewis writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

What I find even more curious is that a short, obscure paper written
by three guys is the only thing that ever gets mentioned by the
anti-helmet camp,

That's because it's pretty much the only statistic quoted by the
anti-choice camp. Or if it isn't, what other study shows this "85%"
figure that I keep seeing?

The "anti-helmet" camp, as you call it, also frequently mentions a
number of other studies, e.g. New Zealand & Australia.

I should have said that it is the only study showing a positive result
for helmet use that they mention.

Which other ones should they mention?

See http://www.bhsi.org/henderso.htm (the report itself is a high
level summary and not that interesting as a result), but it contains
a long bibliography. I've pasted that part in below:

======================

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--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB