Tire-Making: version 'lumpy, bumpy & wrinkly but holding on'

On Nov 15, 2:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/15/2011 2:22 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:



Not just any 26x1.5! *This one has no tread and will blow off at
extremely low pressures. *You cannot get those features on just any
store-bought tire.

Bah. Beaten paths are for beaten men.

Even if I didn't have a day job, tire making would probably be at the
bottom of my things-to-do list, or maybe one up from making my own
gypsum board. I used to ride with a guy named Mike Sinyard who made
his own tires, but then again, he had a lot of help.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Nov 15, 8:32*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 15, 2:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/15/2011 2:22 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

Not just any 26x1.5! *This one has no tread and will blow off at
extremely low pressures. *You cannot get those features on just any
store-bought tire.

Bah. Beaten paths are for beaten men.

Even if I didn't have a day job, tire making would probably be at the
bottom of my things-to-do list, or maybe one up from making my own
gypsum board. *I used to ride with a guy named Mike Sinyard who made
his own tires, but then again, he had a lot of help.

To clarify - are you suggesting that people should only do what you
consider worthwhile? Or is it that because something is available in
a store people shouldn't make things on their own?

I'd be interested to know what Mike Sinyard thinks of Doug's work -
starting from scratch, building his own machines, and working alone.
I somehow feel he wouldn't share your lowly opinion.

R

On Nov 15, 7:45*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 15, 8:32*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Nov 15, 2:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/15/2011 2:22 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

Not just any 26x1.5! *This one has no tread and will blow off at
extremely low pressures. *You cannot get those features on just any
store-bought tire.

Bah. Beaten paths are for beaten men.

Even if I didn't have a day job, tire making would probably be at the
bottom of my things-to-do list, or maybe one up from making my own
gypsum board. *I used to ride with a guy named Mike Sinyard who made
his own tires, but then again, he had a lot of help.

To clarify - are you suggesting that people should only do what you
consider worthwhile? *Or is it that because something is available in
a store people shouldn't make things on their own?

I'd be interested to know what Mike Sinyard thinks of Doug's work -
starting from scratch, building his own machines, and working alone.
I somehow feel he wouldn't share your lowly opinion.

Mike would share my lowly opinion. He was/is an importer. He
obtained product form European and Asian manufacturers. He spec'd
product and didn't do any manufacturing -- except some minor assembly.
I don't know what he thinks though. I didn't really know the guy
except that I rode on some shop rides back in the late '70s/early 80s
-- usually on Turbo seconds with wobbly treads. Some minor on-bike
chit chat.

I absolutely respect Doug C's ingenuity and dogged determination and
fully support his right to make his own tires, and I'm sure he
supports my right to say "why bother."

And no, I don't think that people should not DYI-- I do it all the
time, but I do it because (1) it is usually cheaper, (2) it yields a
better result, (3) no one will do it for me, or (4) I'm curious how
its done. I usually require two or more of those reasons if I'm going
to sink serious time or money in to a project, but that's just me. I
don't have much spare time.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Nov 16, 12:02*am, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 15, 7:45*pm, RicodJour wrote:









On Nov 15, 8:32*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Nov 15, 2:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/15/2011 2:22 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

Not just any 26x1.5! *This one has no tread and will blow off at
extremely low pressures. *You cannot get those features on just any
store-bought tire.

Bah. Beaten paths are for beaten men.

Even if I didn't have a day job, tire making would probably be at the
bottom of my things-to-do list, or maybe one up from making my own
gypsum board. *I used to ride with a guy named Mike Sinyard who made
his own tires, but then again, he had a lot of help.

To clarify - are you suggesting that people should only do what you
consider worthwhile? *Or is it that because something is available in
a store people shouldn't make things on their own?

I'd be interested to know what Mike Sinyard thinks of Doug's work -
starting from scratch, building his own machines, and working alone.
I somehow feel he wouldn't share your lowly opinion.

Mike would share my lowly opinion. *He was/is an importer. *He
obtained product form European and Asian manufacturers. *He spec'd
product and didn't do any manufacturing -- except some minor assembly.
I don't know what he thinks though. *I didn't really know the guy
except that I rode on some shop rides back in the late '70s/early 80s
-- usually on Turbo seconds with wobbly treads. Some minor on-bike
chit chat.

Oh, so he didn't make his own tires. Earlier when you said he made
his own tires it confused me.

I absolutely respect Doug C's ingenuity and dogged determination and
fully support his right to make his own tires, and I'm sure he
supports my right to say "why bother."

I suppose, but just looking at the stuff Doug's done, is there any
reason to even make a "why would I bother" comment? It's obviously a
labor of love, he's not setting up to show Continental how to do it
right, and it's not about the money. In a way it's like telling a guy
that's in love that his girlfriend is in love. Even if she is, it
ain't right.

And no, I don't think that people should not DYI-- I do it all the
time, but I do it because (1) it is usually cheaper, (2) it yields a
better result, (3) no one will do it for me, or (4) I'm curious how
its done. *I usually require two or more of those reasons if I'm going
to sink serious time or money in to a project, but that's just me. I
don't have *much spare time.

Maybe you should ask Doug for some time management tips.

I built a cedar strip canoe just because I saw one once and said, "I
could do that", so I did. If I had bothered to keep track of time and
money it would have made more financial sense to get a part time job
selling greeting cards door-to-door and just buy a canoe. But there's
no way in hell that I would enjoy the store-bought canoe as much as I
enjoy mine.

R

On 15-11-2011 23:34, DougC wrote:

Keep in mind, one side /did/ hold on....... -And I doubt that the
earliest pneumatic tires were inflated to much more than 20 psi either.
....Anybody know?

there is a reprint of the 1900 first version of the Guide Michelin you
might able to get hold of. No starred restaurants yet, but usefull
advice on repairing and maintaining tyres or where to buy a bottle of
petrol. They warned for underinflation, if you pinch flatted ypur 35mm
or 40mm tyre the pressure was too low. The car pump went to 12 kilo's
(170 PSI? ), 4 or 6 kilo's on those was common.
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

On Nov 15, 9:42*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:02*am, Jay Beattie wrote:





On Nov 15, 7:45*pm, RicodJour wrote:

On Nov 15, 8:32*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Nov 15, 2:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 11/15/2011 2:22 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

Not just any 26x1.5! *This one has no tread and will blow off at
extremely low pressures. *You cannot get those features on just any
store-bought tire.

Bah. Beaten paths are for beaten men.

Even if I didn't have a day job, tire making would probably be at the
bottom of my things-to-do list, or maybe one up from making my own
gypsum board. *I used to ride with a guy named Mike Sinyard who made
his own tires, but then again, he had a lot of help.

To clarify - are you suggesting that people should only do what you
consider worthwhile? *Or is it that because something is available in
a store people shouldn't make things on their own?

I'd be interested to know what Mike Sinyard thinks of Doug's work -
starting from scratch, building his own machines, and working alone.
I somehow feel he wouldn't share your lowly opinion.

Mike would share my lowly opinion. *He was/is an importer. *He
obtained product form European and Asian manufacturers. *He spec'd
product and didn't do any manufacturing -- except some minor assembly.
I don't know what he thinks though. *I didn't really know the guy
except that I rode on some shop rides back in the late '70s/early 80s
-- usually on Turbo seconds with wobbly treads. Some minor on-bike
chit chat.

Oh, so he didn't make his own tires. *Earlier when you said he made
his own tires it confused me. *

I absolutely respect Doug C's ingenuity and dogged determination and
fully support his right to make his own tires, and I'm sure he
supports my right to say "why bother."

I suppose, but just looking at the stuff Doug's done, is there any
reason to even make a "why would I bother" comment? *It's obviously a
labor of love, he's not setting up to show Continental how to do it
right, and it's not about the money. *In a way it's like telling a guy
that's in love that his girlfriend is in love. *Even if she is, it
ain't right.

You are more of a romantic than I am. To me, there is a point at which
capital expense and opportunity costs far outweigh the material or
psychic benefit of a project. Inventing is one thing, but spending
thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to produce a cheap,
disposable consumer item seems a bit excessive. He's not producing art
or a product that is unavailable on the market or a new or better
product -- or really even a self-expressive product. This is not R&D
for a commercial venture AFAIK. "Why bother" seems like fair comment
to me. Calling something a "labor of love" should not immunize it
from rational criticism. If it does, then tip to the Republican
field, skip the "God told me to run" thing and call your candidacy a
"labor of love."

-- Jay Beattie.

On Nov 16, 10:38*am, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 15, 9:42*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:02*am, Jay Beattie wrote:

Mike would share my lowly opinion. *He was/is an importer. *He
obtained product form European and Asian manufacturers. *He spec'd
product and didn't do any manufacturing -- except some minor assembly..
I don't know what he thinks though. *I didn't really know the guy
except that I rode on some shop rides back in the late '70s/early 80s
-- usually on Turbo seconds with wobbly treads. Some minor on-bike
chit chat.

Oh, so he didn't make his own tires. *Earlier when you said he made
his own tires it confused me. *

I absolutely respect Doug C's ingenuity and dogged determination and
fully support his right to make his own tires, and I'm sure he
supports my right to say "why bother."

I suppose, but just looking at the stuff Doug's done, is there any
reason to even make a "why would I bother" comment? *It's obviously a
labor of love, he's not setting up to show Continental how to do it
right, and it's not about the money. *In a way it's like telling a guy
that's in love that his girlfriend is in love. *Even if she is, it
ain't right.

Oops. I meant to write, "In a way it's like telling a guy that's in
love that his girlfriend is ugly. Even if she is, it ain't right."

Remind me to proofread next time.

You are more of a romantic than I am. To me, there is a point at which
capital expense and opportunity costs far outweigh the material or
psychic benefit of a project. *Inventing is one thing, but spending
thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to produce a cheap,
disposable consumer item seems a bit excessive. He's not producing art
or a product that is unavailable on the market or a new or better
product -- or really even a self-expressive product. *This is not R&D
for a commercial venture AFAIK. *"Why bother" seems like fair comment
to me. *Calling something a "labor of love" should not immunize it
from rational criticism. *If it does, then tip to the Republican
field, skip the "God told me to run" thing and call your candidacy a
"labor of love."

Ever been in an art museum, Jay? Doesn't seem likely as art is a
labor of love, so it's doubtful whether an viewing art would pass your
"rational criticism" criteria as a worthwhile way to spend your time.

Doug could be collecting baseball caps, or sitting in front of the
tube watching I Love Lucy reruns. Until he says differently, I'm
assuming it's his hobby. It's an odd one, perhaps, but it's far from
being a waste of his time. His time, his call, right?

Let's try it another way - lugged steel frames. Do you admire the
detail in skillfully cutout lugs, and with a detailed chrome and/or
painted finish to highlight those lugs, or are you a "powder-coat it
blue and call it good" type of guy?

R

On Nov 16, 8:29*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 16, 10:38*am, Jay Beattie wrote:





On Nov 15, 9:42*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:02*am, Jay Beattie wrote:

Mike would share my lowly opinion. *He was/is an importer. *He
obtained product form European and Asian manufacturers. *He spec'd
product and didn't do any manufacturing -- except some minor assembly.
I don't know what he thinks though. *I didn't really know the guy
except that I rode on some shop rides back in the late '70s/early 80s
-- usually on Turbo seconds with wobbly treads. Some minor on-bike
chit chat.

Oh, so he didn't make his own tires. *Earlier when you said he made
his own tires it confused me. *

I absolutely respect Doug C's ingenuity and dogged determination and
fully support his right to make his own tires, and I'm sure he
supports my right to say "why bother."

I suppose, but just looking at the stuff Doug's done, is there any
reason to even make a "why would I bother" comment? *It's obviously a
labor of love, he's not setting up to show Continental how to do it
right, and it's not about the money. *In a way it's like telling a guy
that's in love that his girlfriend is in love. *Even if she is, it
ain't right.

Oops. *I meant to write, "In a way it's like telling a guy that's in
love that his girlfriend is ugly. *Even if she is, it ain't right."

Remind me to proofread next time. *

You are more of a romantic than I am. To me, there is a point at which
capital expense and opportunity costs far outweigh the material or
psychic benefit of a project. *Inventing is one thing, but spending
thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to produce a cheap,
disposable consumer item seems a bit excessive. He's not producing art
or a product that is unavailable on the market or a new or better
product -- or really even a self-expressive product. *This is not R&D
for a commercial venture AFAIK. *"Why bother" seems like fair comment
to me. *Calling something a "labor of love" should not immunize it
from rational criticism. *If it does, then tip to the Republican
field, skip the "God told me to run" thing and call your candidacy a
"labor of love."

Ever been in an art museum, Jay? *Doesn't seem likely as art is a
labor of love, so it's doubtful whether an viewing art would pass your
"rational criticism" criteria as a worthwhile way to spend your time.

Tires are not art -- although some are priced like art. Well, I
really shouldn't say tires are not art, because apparently everything
is art. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3604278.stm

Can I not make fun of a bag of garbage dressed up as art? I'm sure it
was a labor of love for somebody.

Doug could be collecting baseball caps, or sitting in front of the
tube watching I Love Lucy reruns. Until he says differently, I'm
assuming it's his hobby. It's an odd one, perhaps, but it's far from
being a waste of his time. His time, his call, right?

Let's try it another way - lugged steel frames. Do you admire the
detail in skillfully cutout lugs, and with a detailed chrome and/or
painted finish to highlight those lugs, or are you a "powder-coat it
blue and call it good" type of guy?

After rebrazing my last steel racing frame for the second time, I had
it powder coated orange. I was going to paint it myself, but I would
have to buy quantities of PPG or DuPont product that would be cost
prohibitive and wasteful, and I didn't want to do a rattle-can job. It
broke again for the third time, and now it is garden art, and that
powder coat is holding up well in the Oregon rain. The reason I did
not rebraze it is because it is boat-anchor heavy and no longer fits
-- I now prefer longer top tubes and lighter frames.

I cut the tubes for that frame back in '80-81, although it was brazed
up by the builder, who was a good friend. I spent a lot of time
working on my own frames in the 70s/80s -- which were numerous due to
thefts and mishaps and the desire to own frames. I can see DYI frame
building. It's fun, and you get a frame that you can ride. What I
would not do is make my own tubes. If I went out and purchased a
second hand drawbench to make the tubes for a frame, my wife would
throw me out of the house -- although I could sleep in the hangar
along with the drawbench. Some labors of love are more worthy than
others. I wouldn't tell a guy that the love of his life is ugly, but
I would tell him that she is an unholy shrew who is sucking the life
out of him. I wouldn't hold it against him if I didn't get a wedding
invite. I would just wait for the next wedding invite.

-- Jay Beattie.

PS -- I was at the Hirshhorn a few years back and couldn't tell when I
was in an art display or construction zone. I mean really. I can do
that!

http://www.hirshhorn.si.edu/visit/co...0&subkey=15601

On 11/16/2011 4:14 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:29 am, wrote:
....
Doug could be ,,, sitting in front of the
tube watching I Love Lucy reruns. ...


Quite the contrary: I do not own a television.


... Some labors of love are more worthy than others....

-- Jay Beattie.


I said already: there's possibilities here.
Things the tire companies will not or cannot do....