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#81
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22 Sept. No petrol day
Resound Wrote: So anyone who has two children and manages with a car that's smaller than a Commodore or Falcon is clearly cheating somehow? 1970 mercedes compact 4 cyclinder 220, big enough to scare mum trucks and small enough to occupy less roadway than most medium size post millenium models and it has 4 wheel disc brakes and 4 speed auto. Way ahead of the others in its day and still a great family hack today...oh and it has carried three bikes on the roof and a full frame in the boot plus three sons, a partner and the Esky plus picnic basket.....forget the "Mom Trucks" and the "Dunnydore" and the "Bord", they just perpetuate disposable wasteful engineering exploitation of society's weakness for advertisng and ego tripping. If you have to drive go retro and ride a bike when you can, what a combo...like beer and chips -- rooman |
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#82
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22 Sept. No petrol day
rooman wrote in
: Resound Wrote: So anyone who has two children and manages with a car that's smaller than a Commodore or Falcon is clearly cheating somehow? 1970 mercedes compact 4 cyclinder 220, big enough to scare mum trucks and small enough to occupy less roadway than most medium size post millenium models and it has 4 wheel disc brakes and 4 speed auto. Way ahead of the others in its day and still a great family hack today...oh and it has carried three bikes on the roof and a full frame in the boot plus three sons, a partner and the Esky plus picnic basket.....forget the "Mom Trucks" and the "Dunnydore" and the "Bord", they just perpetuate disposable wasteful engineering exploitation of society's weakness for advertisng and ego tripping. If you have to drive go retro and ride a bike when you can, what a combo...like beer and chips Newsflash for you - cars are about personal choice same as bikes. Does anyone need a Trek Madone - do you have any idea of the comparative environmental cost of the Madone vs a cheap chinese steel framed bike (I don't because I've never checked). What about limited production carbon cranks? I also hate the soccer mums and dads in their 4wds. Many don't know how to drive them nor do they realise that they are in fact not particularly safe. Sitting up high makes them feel better. I save most of my hatred for the F150/F350 utes and the Humvee though. These things have no place on our roads - there are alternatives that do the job much better. But if that's what someone wants then I suppose I can't object. I'd just make it harder for them to buy them (100% excise anyone?) I drive not one but two commodores. I feel like a tool in the work one since it mostly has only one occupant. The ute I own I have because it is the most comfortable multi purpose vehicle I could get. It carries 750kg without any worries, handles dirt roads (camping/MTB), takes the fishing rods etc. I'm involved in a fair bit of volunteer/community service work as well. Most of the people I do it with have smaller hatches and sedans. Good for them, I like their cars but guess who does most of the fetching and carrying. Ever tried to get 4 eight foot tables in a Mazda 3? And small front wheel drive cars should not ever tow trailers, they don't have enough command authority. If I was buying a sedan I would almost certainly buy a Subaru Liberty. If I wanted to carry a lot of kids stuff I'd probably try the Forester or the Outback. If I had 3 kids then I'd probably get the Odessy. And I'd still own the ute. I and a lot of blokes my size (about 10% of the male popn) simply don't fit in the Mazda 3, Impreza etc. I actually can't drive these cars safely (due to the lack of space). I wouldn't want to sit in back any further than a trip up the street. And I have to do long trips, I live 1300k from the capital for example. If I drove that distance in Europe I would normally be in the next country or across several (Obviously not in France, Germany or Russia) The BMW 3, C Class merc, Saab 9 series are just as bad. To be comfortable I have to move to the 5 series which isn't much different in size to a commodore. Don't critise the body - the boat anchor engines are what needs to change. Why can't I buy a commodore with a highly effcient 3.0l straight six (V6s require additional balancing and are less efficient) or better yet a 2.5l common rail high pressure turbo diesel. I'd pay an extra 10 grand for a commodore ute with that engine. Simmarily why can't I get a hybrid commodore/falcon to replace the work car with a 4cyl petrol motor and electric assist? Simple - because the bogans won't buy them. If you want to work out whether falcadoors have a place in this world look at the taxi fleet. These guys will run the cheapest car they can. They'll abuse it and drive it in everything from gridlock to motorway cruising. In most regional towns (without the motorways or long distance travel) many are using the 4cyl Camry. In the major cities where that would be a really good economical choice they are predominately using falcons. The engine lasts a long time, the car is roomy and it uses less fuel with a load on board at highway speeds than the Camry. Buy whatever car or bike you want. But don't make sweeping generalisations, there are pros and cons to each vehicle. If you are happy and comfortable with a small car then good, in some ways I envy you. But don't put down people just because they don't make the same choices or think exactly like you. Cheers BrettM |
#83
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22 Sept. No petrol day
"Resound" wrote in message ... "Bob" wrote in message u... "Resound" wrote in message ... Scandinavians would be one of the last cultures to do that sort of thing, and if you think they dont make use of cars during the winter The ubiquitous yellow Volvo station wagon from the 80's? It is not enormous, but it is no small car. I don't think many are arguing that a Falcon may be overkill if we are talking about one new child. Just that a 121 is inadequate to transport a new born - 6 month old due to legislation/regulation that specifically requires use of a rearward facing seat for babies satisfying Australian Design Rules. All resulting in baby seats that don't fit in a 121 with anymore than 2 other passengers. Any family with 1 baby and two toddlers still in car seats would know that they do not fit in anything smaller than a large car (commodore or falcon) - even the narrowest seats cannot fit across the width. So anyone who has two shildren and manages with a car that's smaller than a Commodore or Falcon is clearly cheating somehow? I said three. one baby and two toddlers still in car seats. Signifiantly more than the current average family size of 1.9 kids. But not completely uncommon. |
#84
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22 Sept. No petrol day
"Resound" wrote in message ... So anyone who has two shildren and manages with a car that's smaller than a Commodore or Falcon is clearly cheating somehow? Hm. I thoght my girlfriend must have been cheating when she managed to fit 2 kids (one kid seat, one capsule), me and whatever we needed for the trip (including going camping) into a Hyundai Excel 2 door. Yes, it's more awkward than using a Falcodore Cruiser but, with proper packing, it all fitted. It sounds to me like the "got to buy a big car for carting the kids around" thing really means "got to buy a big car because I'm incapable of organising myself properly". Now the kids are bigger she still manages all she needs with a Hyundai Accent - still a two door. I'll grant that, say, 3 kids, two adults and assorted other stuff needs a bigger car but I don't think anyone is complaining about vehicles to suit the situation. A Landcruiser is perfectly justified for trips to the bush, fishing trips, carrying trade tools, etc. Carting kids is not what I'd consider justification for a Landcruiser. It's over size vehicles for the use to which they are put that's the problem. I still see little need to push 2 tonnes of metal around all week for the occasional trip though. I have an Elantra. With the fuel savings compared to driving my old Nissan Patrol (when I had a farm) I can hire a landcruiser when I want to go bush. I don't understand why people don't simply use what they need and no more (and prestige is not a need!). Just my 2 litre's worth... Frank |
#85
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22 Sept. No petrol day
BrettM Wrote:[color=blue] rooman wrote in : Resound Wrote: So anyone who has two children and manages with a car that's smaller than a Commodore or Falcon is clearly cheating somehow? 1970 mercedes compact 4 cyclinder 220, big enough to scare mum trucks and small enough to occupy less roadway than most medium size post millenium models and it has 4 wheel disc brakes and 4 speed auto. Way ahead of the others in its day and still a great family hack today...oh schnip I do like the old Benzes. They're getting a bit long in the tooth to be considered truly efficient anymore, but compared to virtually anything else that age they're fabulous cars. Newsflash for you - cars are about personal choice same as bikes. schnip again Buy whatever car or bike you want. But don't make sweeping generalisations, there are pros and cons to each vehicle. If you are happy and comfortable with a small car then good, in some ways I envy you. But don't put down people just because they don't make the same choices or think exactly like you. Cheers BrettM I agree with you and I'm not suggesting that there are no legitimate uses for larger vehicles. There are any number of reasons why someone might need a lareg vehicle and those that you've mentioned are among them. What I'm railing against is the idea that having a child requires the purchase of a large vehicle for that reason and that reason alone. I've come across a number of instances where someone has had a child and they immediately start looking at large vehicles to replace the small or medium size vehicle which, with a little thought, would still be perfectly suitable. -- Resound |
#86
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22 Sept. No petrol day
SteveA wrote: PiledHigher Wrote: I'm working under the assumption that this might actually reduce the energy input into food, in that it will make sense for distributers to buy food from closer to the point of sale. This could improve food quality through food spending less time in storage before sale, in addition should support local grown products. Yes, I know that there are energy inputs in manufacture but from what I understand these are much less than the international travel of food, that said a recent study suggested that one of the highest energy inputs is getting the food from the shop to the home. PiledHigher We should go *really* local in sourcing our food. When we were kids, we lived in inner suburban Brisbane and in the backyard (about a 500 sq m block) we had chooks (eggs and meat), spuds, corn, carrots, broccoli, lettuce, strawberries, zucchini, pumpkins and an orange tree. Food scraps went to the chooks or into the mulch. And this was not unusual in the neighbourhood. And we were firmly middle class. We are going to have to get back to doing this more. SteveA My parents have just retired to Tas - reasonably large block (why they bought it) but on the outskirts of town. My Dad is in heaven - he hasn't had that big a vege patch (actually two when I think about it) since we were in Adelaide - he's back to raving about all the home grown veges they've got and the ones they've picked and put in storage in the shed - they have an extra fridge out there just to hold the stuff that needs to stay cool! And believe me, they are essentially middle class too... |
#87
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22 Sept. No petrol day
I still see little need to push 2 tonnes of metal around all week for the occasional trip though. I have an Elantra. With the fuel savings compared to driving my old Nissan Patrol (when I had a farm) I can hire a landcruiser when I want to go bush. I don't understand why people don't simply use what they need and no more (and prestige is not a need!). Just my 2 litre's worth... Frank Whilst it is obviously better if people only arm themselves with a vehicle that absolutely suits their needs (rather than wants), and I appreciate that drivers are basically the enemy, than are many aspects of peoples' lifestyle choices that need to be looked at, not just the soft-target of 4WD owners. In many instances, the order of magnitude b/w a "sensible" car and a 4WD in terms of envronmental impact is not as great as other comparisons, such as types and uses of home energy systems, aircraft travel, food consumption etc. Having a go at urban 4WDers just for the sake of it is intellectually lazy, and in some cases plainly incorrect. Pat -- vaudegiant |
#88
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22 Sept. No petrol day
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:30:39 +1000, "Resound"
wrote in aus.bicycle: If you had to expend as much energy to extract it as you get from it, it wouldn't be worth a thing. You'd be running at a loss from the start. Pumping water up the snowy and Shoalhaven hydro schemes at night only recovers 80% of the enery it takes to pump but there are other benefits. Its the convenient way of storing energy that makes it worth while Regards Prickles |
#89
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22 Sept. No petrol day
"vaudegiant" wrote in message ... Whilst it is obviously better if people only arm themselves with a vehicle that absolutely suits their needs (rather than wants), and I appreciate that drivers are basically the enemy, than are many aspects of peoples' lifestyle choices that need to be looked at, not just the soft-target of 4WD owners. In many instances, the order of magnitude b/w a "sensible" car and a 4WD in terms of envronmental impact is not as great as other comparisons, such as types and uses of home energy systems, aircraft travel, food consumption etc. Having a go at urban 4WDers just for the sake of it is intellectually lazy, and in some cases plainly incorrect. Pat Agreed, although I'm not sure about the "...drivers are basically the enemy" bit. I drive too. However, at the risk of overgeneralising, often someone who drives an oversized vehicle for their needs is someone who is less likely to consider environmental impacts in general. The use of a Landcruiser to ferry the kids to school or to drive to the office can, I think, provide a fair indication that the driver is making less of an environmental effort than many others. I'm very reluctant to talk in absolutes. I think the thread here is about general tendencies and is not intended to be 100% correct. The discussion is also centred around bikes vs cars, so other aspects becomes less relevent to *this* discussion (not less relevent overall). I wouldn't trot around assuming everyone driving a fuel-guzzler is environmentally irresponsible any more thn I'd laud everyone who rides a bike for their green footprint. I try to bear in mind that this is essentially a chat forum, not an academic debate... Cheers, Frank |
#90
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22 Sept. No petrol day
Plodder Wrote: " I wouldn't trot around assuming everyone driving a fuel-guzzler is environmentally irresponsible any more thn I'd laud everyone who rides a bike for their green footprint. I try to bear in mind that this is essentially a chat forum, not an academic debate... Braking on descents is a waste of energy, unGreen. Crashing is an extreme form of braking, extremely unGreen. -- aeek |
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