durable rim suggestions

paul- There is no reason not to use 15/16 ga spokes on a wheel vs the 14/15.
The spokes dont break or wear out. BRBR

BUT they support the rim. There is no reason to NOT use 14/15 spokes vs 15/16.

But like I said, add 100 grams to a rear wheel for a 200 pound rider and buy a
little durability. Would you use a frameset that was 'just strong enough' for
'most situations? or a pedal or a crankset?
People talk about durability all the time about everything but wheels, where
they state theirs are where they saved the weight. Makes no sense to me. 100
grams isn't going to affect anybody's performance BUT a wacked wheel out by
east jesus , when ya gotta be recued, will.

As for the tandem, I would not build the wheel, period. They would have to go
somewhere else for a rear Aerohead wheel for a tandem. WE gotta stand behind
the things we sell. If the customer is making the mistake, and it goes to hell,
the LBS still loses for selling it to them.

Weight is NOT everything, if the stinking thing strands the customer. If you
build that wheel you are not doing your JOB educating the customer, but I know
you aren't in the bike biz.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Benny- I'm not going to get too silly about grams, but I would
prefer a wheel slightly lighter than what I've had, definitely not
heavier. How much lighter is a 36 spoke wheel using 14/15 db spokes
vs. the straight 14 spokes I has before? How much lighter for 15/16?
BRBR

No such thing as a free lunch. 15/16 spokes are about 40 grams lighter BUT make
for a less strong wheel, all else being equal. 14/15 are the best combo of
strength and durability.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 28 Jun 2004 12:55:49 GMT, (Qui si parla
Campagnolo ) wrote:

As for the tandem, I would not build the wheel, period. They would have to go
somewhere else for a rear Aerohead wheel for a tandem. WE gotta stand behind
the things we sell. If the customer is making the mistake, and it goes to hell,
the LBS still loses for selling it to them.

Weight is NOT everything, if the stinking thing strands the customer. If you
build that wheel you are not doing your JOB educating the customer, but I know
you aren't in the bike biz.

Butted spokes are the way to go. The spokes do support the wheel.
Each 15/16 ga spoke has the same tension as a 14/15 ga spoke. The
thinner spoke is justified the same way that a 14/15 ga is more
durable than a straight 14 ga.

You can't tell a weight weenie anything.

I'm glad I don't have to make a living in the bicycle business but I
have been in the Nutritional Supplement business for 30 years. You
can't tell a supplement fanatic anything either. They just don't want
the facts.

Paul- The
thinner spoke is justified the same way that a 14/15 ga is more
durable than a straight 14 ga. BRBR

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a 15/16 have
over a 14/15??

Paul You can't tell a weight weenie anything. BRBR

We wouldn't build that wheel.




Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " wrote:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a 15/16
have
over a 14/15??

Paul You can't tell a weight weenie anything. BRBR

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds good
enough to me.

Andrew Lee wrote:
"Qui si parla Campagnolo " wrote:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a
15/16 have over a 14/15??

Paul You can't tell a weight weenie anything. BRBR

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.

You were misled.

Bill "not even slightly original" S.

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.



Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when
someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over?
Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur
intended) . . .

Any OCR is going to outlast a std rim - what about Ritchey's Zero hubs
and rims for keeping things evenly tensioned?

MH



--

mfhor wrote:
We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.



Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when
someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over?
Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur
intended) . . .

You quote no one, reply under my post (but delete what I had written), and
mix threads a bit. I can only conclude...

You're a Nazi.

Bill "we're all goin' to heil" S.

"S o r n i" wrote:

mfhor wrote:
We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when
someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over?
Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur
intended) . . .

You quote no one, reply under my post (but delete what I had written), and
mix threads a bit. I can only conclude...

You're a Nazi.

You Goodwin'd the wrong thread!!! D'Oh!

Bill "we're all goin' to heil" S.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

I placed an inquiry with Joe Young (Youngwheels.com) about light,
durable wheels that would support my weight (200 lb) and riding (mostly
smooth roads) and received a great response. Many of you will recognize
Joe as one of the premier wheel builders in the US. The wheels he
recommends are about twice that of my current set (Wheelsmith built
Mavics w/DA hubs, double-butted spokes), but he claims the DT parts are
superior. I thought some of you might be interested in his response.

Hi Jesse,

My experience has been the Velocity rims have less quality metal than
the Mavic rims. I am not able to use as much tension with Velocity as
Mavic. I prefer the new DT RR 1.1 to Velocit or Mavic. The RR 1.1 rims
have a slightly higher profile, are lighter (415 grams) and have higher
quality metal.

For your size and riding preferences I would recommend my lightest
design (lighter and faster than Krysium) that would hold up to lots of
miles with little or no service needed.

My classic design emphasizes low weight on the out side diameter of the
wheel where less weight is most meaningful. Less weight here means
better acceleration and climbing efficiency. The "aero" look wheels have
more weight on the outside diameter to support the lower spoke count.
This is OK for straight line time trail situations where acceleration
and climbing is not and issue but not as fast in most race and training
situations. Also if you read the fine print in wheel wind tunnel tests
they state that there is little or no aero effect at speeds under 30
MPH. My wheel designs are also easier to repair should an accident, like
a pedal in the wheel, require spoke replacement.

For hubs I recommend DT Hugi 240 (96 grams front 235 grams rear) DT Hubs
are Swiss made with all cartridge bearings and labaynth seals to keep
out water and dirt.They roll much faster than cone and loose ball
bearing hubs like Shimano and Campagnolo and are much easier to service.
DT hubs have a special rear flange design for 9/10 speed drive systems
that reduces the tension difference between the drive and non drive
spokes that are found in conventional hubs. This tension difference
reduces stability in the wheel reducing performance and causing the
wheel to need re-tension and truing on a regular basis.

Second choice hub would be DT Onyx. Built with the same quality as the
240S the onyx has a standard pawl and spring drive system and steel axle
but with cartridge bearings and seals. The drive and axle adds a bit of
weight but costs less. I find this hub to be superior to the Dura Ace
and actually costs less.

DT RR 1.1 rims are the lightest quality rims (420 grams). They have
single eyelets, are welded for a smooth braking surface and have
dependable availability.

For spokes I like the new DT Swiss Super Competition 2.0/1.7/1.8 gage
triple butted. The 2.0 GA at the hub flange for strength,1.7 in the
center for light weight and less wind up and 1.8 at the nipple for less
weight and strength . This spoke is 30% lighter than the standard
Competition but doesn't wind up as bad as the Revolution 14/15/14. I
have found I can't get adequate tension with the Revolution which
produces a wimpy wheel. Available in black only with Alloy nipples any
color. 3X cross rear and 2X front. I find using more durable and
slightly heavier spokes gives the wheel more stability and longevity.
Power transfer from pedal to ground is more efficient which off sets any
weight gain several fold. .

Second choice spoke is the DT Competition 2.0X1.8X2.0 double butted.
Again a bit more weight but less $$.

Here is one design/quote:

DT 240S road hubs $315.00 pair

DT Onyx road $175.00 pair

DT RR1.1 black or silver $140.00 pair

DT Super Competition spokes black only with any color alloy nipple
$1.15 each

DT Competition spokes stainless steel silver $.80 each plated brass
nipples silver, $.85 plated brass black, $1.00 alloy any color. For
black spokes add $.15.

Labor to build $90.00 pair

I use a bit higher tension in my wheels and use a spoke tension meter to
insure that the spokes are at the proper tension and that each spoke is
within 5% of the other spokes in the front wheel and each side of the
rear wheel. This method helps the wheel stay tensioned and true usually
for the life of the rim.

If you want to go into this concept further or want more options please
call or email.

Regards,

Joe Young

Joe Young Wheels Joe Young Wheels Phone:830 997 6376



--