Threading a spoke

Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

TheCoz wrote:
Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

Phil Wood spoke machine.
http://www.philwood.com/products/tools/spokemach.php

We're not on that list and I have a low serial number too!

Spoke threads are rolled, not cut.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

TheCoz wrote:

Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?

The Hozan tool is the one that's most likely to be found in a bike
shop or enthusiast's home workshop:

http://www.hozan.co.jp/cycle_e/catalog/wheel/C-700.htm

It's around $200 last time I checked, though. The thread rolling dies
don't last as long as you'd hope. And it's incredibly tedious to do a
whole wheel's worth.

Chalo

On Dec 19, 8:53*pm, AMuzi wrote:
TheCoz wrote:
Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

Phil Wood spoke machine.http://www.philwood.com/products/tools/spokemach.php

We're not on that list and I have a low serial number too!

Spoke threads are rolled, not cut.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Dear Coz,

If you prefer new-fangled equipment, consider Andrew's Phil Woods
suggstion or the Hozan threader:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22s...r=&safe=images

But for the same price, you can get much sturdier equipment from the
Waterbury Farrel Foundry and Machine Company

Well worth the $225 it cost in 1893:

http://books.google.com/books?id=lNw...page&q&f=false

And don't forget the other end of the spoke--pick up a spoke heading
machine, too. See the preceding page for the $375 bargain.

Of course, there's been a tiny increase in real cost since the bike
boom, due to inflation. That $225 is about $5600 new-fangled dollars,
none of them in gold or silver.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On 12/19/2011 9:46 PM, TheCoz wrote:
Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

"2.2mm x 56" is a metric-ized conversion of the old English #2-56 size,
for which you can find regular dies.

Like this one, for $6.39
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/k+s/k+s417.htm

......

It can be difficult to start a die on a shaft and have it stay centered
for more than two or three diameters, so you might have to rig up
something to hold the spoke and die concentric in use. I'd bet you could
do that for a lot less than $3500, and maybe quite a bit less than $200.
It would probably not be as quick as those devices however.

My first guess is you would need tapping fluid, at least a small vise to
hold the spoke in, and some small pieces of brass to use as jaws to
avoid marring the spoke. All that's still much less than $200 tho.


It is true that spoke machines normally produce rolled threads, and not
cut threads--but that is only a matter of expediency. Most threading in
metalworking is cut, and I've not ever seen any claims that rolled
thread was stronger.

{-what I have seen indicates that rolled thread is cheaper and less
precise. The cheap all-thread rod that the hardware store sells is
rolled thread; if you want a more-precise part, the "good" threaded rod
from machine-supply places is cut & ground}

On 20-12-2011 10:25, DougC wrote:

It can be difficult to start a die on a shaft and have it stay centered
for more than two or three diameters, so you might have to rig up
something to hold the spoke and die concentric in use. I'd bet you could
do that for a lot less than $3500, and maybe quite a bit less than $200.
It would probably not be as quick as those devices however.

My first guess is you would need tapping fluid, at least a small vise to
hold the spoke in, and some small pieces of brass to use as jaws to
avoid marring the spoke. All that's still much less than $200 tho.


It is true that spoke machines normally produce rolled threads, and not
cut threads--but that is only a matter of expediency. Most threading in
metalworking is cut, and I've not ever seen any claims that rolled
thread was stronger.

{-what I have seen indicates that rolled thread is cheaper and less
precise. The cheap all-thread rod that the hardware store sells is
rolled thread; if you want a more-precise part, the "good" threaded rod
from machine-supply places is cut & ground}

a little knowledge is a dangerous thing


--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

DougC wrote:
On 12/19/2011 9:46 PM, TheCoz wrote:
Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

"2.2mm x 56" is a metric-ized conversion of the old English #2-56 size,
for which you can find regular dies.

Like this one, for $6.39
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/k+s/k+s417.htm

.....

It can be difficult to start a die on a shaft and have it stay centered
for more than two or three diameters, so you might have to rig up
something to hold the spoke and die concentric in use. I'd bet you could
do that for a lot less than $3500, and maybe quite a bit less than $200.
It would probably not be as quick as those devices however.

My first guess is you would need tapping fluid, at least a small vise to
hold the spoke in, and some small pieces of brass to use as jaws to
avoid marring the spoke. All that's still much less than $200 tho.


It is true that spoke machines normally produce rolled threads, and not
cut threads--but that is only a matter of expediency. Most threading in
metalworking is cut, and I've not ever seen any claims that rolled
thread was stronger.

If you google "rolled threads stronger" you'll find plenty of claims
that rolled threads are stronger. That's largely because they are,
especially in fatigue situations. With rolled threads, there's less
geometric stress concentration, plus better alignment of grain to stress.

We went around and around on this a couple years ago, regarding brake
mounting bolts. (Some individuals were claiming that because rolled
threads are stronger, no brakes should ever be mounted with cut-thread
bolts. In my view, that's too extreme.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Dec 20, 5:44*am, Chalo wrote:
TheCoz wrote:

Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?

The Hozan tool is the one that's most likely to be found in a bike
shop or enthusiast's home workshop:

http://www.hozan.co.jp/cycle_e/catalog/wheel/C-700.htm

It's around $200 last time I checked, though. *The thread rolling dies
don't last as long as you'd hope. *And it's incredibly tedious to do a
whole wheel's worth.

Chalo

Have you tried annealing the spokes first, before applying MoS2 to
spoke and threading die?

On Dec 20, 4:12*pm, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
DougC wrote:
On 12/19/2011 9:46 PM, TheCoz wrote:
Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

"2.2mm x 56" is a metric-ized conversion of the old English #2-56 size,
for which you can find regular dies.

Like this one, for $6.39
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/k+s/k+s417.htm

.....

It can be difficult to start a die on a shaft and have it stay centered
for more than two or three diameters, so you might have to rig up
something to hold the spoke and die concentric in use. I'd bet you could
do that for a lot less than $3500, and maybe quite a bit less than $200..
It would probably not be as quick as those devices however.

My first guess is you would need tapping fluid, at least a small vise to
hold the spoke in, and some small pieces of brass to use as jaws to
avoid marring the spoke. All that's still much less than $200 tho.

It is true that spoke machines normally produce rolled threads, and not
cut threads--but that is only a matter of expediency. Most threading in
metalworking is cut, and I've not ever seen any claims that rolled
thread was stronger.

If you google "rolled threads stronger" you'll find plenty of claims
that rolled threads are stronger. *That's largely because they are,
especially in fatigue situations. *With rolled threads, there's less
geometric stress concentration, plus better alignment of grain to stress.

We went around and around on this a couple years ago, regarding brake
mounting bolts. *(Some individuals were claiming that because rolled
threads are stronger, no brakes should ever be mounted with cut-thread
bolts. *In my view, that's too extreme.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

Rolling of threads is not necessary in spokes. The correct thread
form is. The root of the thread shold be of constant radius which
minimises the stress concentration. The use of a softer metal for the
nipples allows non-perfect threads some conformability to give a
proper share of the load through the length of the thread.

DougC wrote:
On 12/19/2011 9:46 PM, TheCoz wrote:
Does any one know where I can find such a tool small enough to put
threads on a spoke?
Coz

"2.2mm x 56" is a metric-ized conversion of the old English #2-56 size,
for which you can find regular dies.

Like this one, for $6.39
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/k+s/k+s417.htm

.....

It can be difficult to start a die on a shaft and have it stay centered
for more than two or three diameters, so you might have to rig up
something to hold the spoke and die concentric in use. I'd bet you could
do that for a lot less than $3500, and maybe quite a bit less than $200.
It would probably not be as quick as those devices however.

My first guess is you would need tapping fluid, at least a small vise to
hold the spoke in, and some small pieces of brass to use as jaws to
avoid marring the spoke. All that's still much less than $200 tho.


It is true that spoke machines normally produce rolled threads, and not
cut threads--but that is only a matter of expediency. Most threading in
metalworking is cut, and I've not ever seen any claims that rolled
thread was stronger.

{-what I have seen indicates that rolled thread is cheaper and less
precise. The cheap all-thread rod that the hardware store sells is
rolled thread; if you want a more-precise part, the "good" threaded rod
from machine-supply places is cut & ground}




This is about the inverse process, a tapped hole, but the
principal is the same:

http://www.ctemag.com/dynamic.articles.php?id=197

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971