The real reason Hoste lost

Dumbasses -

In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.

Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.

Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...07/rvv07/fs005

It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.

Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.

Good analysis. Thanks for the insight!

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dumbasses -

In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.

Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.

Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...07/rvv07/fs005

It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.

Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dumbasses -

In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.

Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.

Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...07/rvv07/fs005

It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.

Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.


Maybe. But there's also the factor that when two riders are out alone that
far for a long final sprint, one of them always ends up doing a lead out for
the other. That's my guess from the photo. The only other option is doing
a track stand and letting the pack pass you up.

Caroline
ex-USCF race official

On Apr 8, 12:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" wrote:
Dumbasses -

In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.

Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.

Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...x.php?id=/phot...

It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.

Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=raceday/32

Photo of previous race, shows the LH barriers without follow cars in
the way. Definitely a hump-- not a climb but a nice little uphill (one
might think) placed in the course for just this "confounding" effect
on the outcome of finishes.

From photos, very close. Film at 6:00 (Versus). --D-y

On Apr 8, 8:45 pm, " wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...x.php?id=raced...

Photo of previous race, shows the LH barriers without follow cars in
the way. Definitely a hump-- not a climb but a nice little uphill (one
might think) placed in the course for just this "confounding" effect
on the outcome of finishes.

It's definitely uphill (ridden it a few times) and I would imagine
it's fairly easy to misjudge. Hoste should have known better, having
twice finished second in a sprint there prior to today. Or maybe that
proves that he doesn't know better :-)

Nice finish though - I enjoyed that.

Jeff

On Apr 8, 12:31 pm, "Caroline" wrote:
"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message

oups.com...





Dumbasses -

In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.

Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.

Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...x.php?id=/phot...

It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.

Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.

Maybe. But there's also the factor that when two riders are out alone that
far for a long final sprint, one of them always ends up doing a lead out for
the other. That's my guess from the photo. The only other option is doing
a track stand and letting the pack pass you up.



Dumbass -


In match sprinting someone usually also leads out. As for the closing
pack - yes, that's yet another variable to add into the equation.

Another of many things that weren't mentioned is that in road
sprinting the lead rider doesn't have a turn where he/she can float.
There's also no banking to accelerate down for the follow rider. But,
despite the hundreds of differences that can be pointed out, the basic
underlying principles are the same.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Did you attend the University of I Know Everything About Bike Rides That
Take 6 Hours and 10 Minute?



"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dumbasses -

In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.

Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.

Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...07/rvv07/fs005

It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.

Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.

On Apr 8, 1:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" wrote:
Dumbasses -

dumbass,

the reason hoste lost was because he is a bitch. last year he screwed
over his team to work for boonen and used his second place to leverage
a higher paying job on his old team. the year before he sat on
wesemann until wesemann squeezed his balls.

he sat on ballan, and of course i don't think you should pull through
because someone wants you too, his bitchmade body language makes me
want to punch him in the head. *

he's not a winner, which is why he can be strong and still lose.

yeah, i'm glad ballan won.

*(also he may have sprinted for the wrong line)

On 8 Apr 2007 18:30:19 -0700, "
wrote:

On Apr 8, 1:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" wrote:
Dumbasses -

dumbass,

the reason hoste lost was because he is a bitch. last year he screwed
over his team to work for boonen and used his second place to leverage
a higher paying job on his old team. the year before he sat on
wesemann until wesemann squeezed his balls.

he sat on ballan, and of course i don't think you should pull through
because someone wants you too, his bitchmade body language makes me
want to punch him in the head. *

he's not a winner, which is why he can be strong and still lose.

yeah, i'm glad ballan won.

*(also he may have sprinted for the wrong line)

Ballan was stronger, and maybe Hoste went too early.

I like this quote from Hoste's teammate Björn Leukemans
(in http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...pr07/apr09news)

"Hoste is like that; if he knows that he's faster, then he thinks he's
certain of the win"

--
JT
****************************
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Dumbass -


In match sprinting someone usually also leads out. As for the closing
pack - yes, that's yet another variable to add into the equation.

Another of many things that weren't mentioned is that in road
sprinting the lead rider doesn't have a turn where he/she can float.
There's also no banking to accelerate down for the follow rider. But,
despite the hundreds of differences that can be pointed out, the basic
underlying principles are the same.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

The real reason that he lost is because the other rider reached the line
first. He was outsprinted. There were two riders and one first place. I
suffered from that too often, back-in-my-USCF-day.