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Keeping a kickstand on tight



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 31st 19, 01:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,424
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

Why can I hardly ever get a kickstand to stay on tight? It seems like no matter how hard I tighten it, all I have to do is bump it with my foot when in the up position, and it moves, and then it moves easier after that.

The thought occurred that maybe the bolt should be thinner, by jobstian logic - remember his claim that thinner spokes stretch more and thus go slack less easily, maybe the bolt that hold the think together is too beefy for it's own good? The one that comes with tha aluminum stands is pretty substantial - I don't have one in front of me but maybe 3/8 or even 7/16" thread? That will help reduce stripping of the threads in the Al it is going into, but it's not going to stretch much.

I tried replacing the little plate that goes on top of the chainstays with a steel one, but I used soft steel, and it bent when I tightened. I could make my own Al plate, and use a much smaller - 6mm or 1/4" bolt, and not thread the AL but put a nut on top of it. But the hole in the stand part is larger that. I spose that could be addressed by a collar.

?

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  #2  
Old July 31st 19, 02:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On 7/30/2019 7:44 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
Why can I hardly ever get a kickstand to stay on tight? It seems like no matter how hard I tighten it, all I have to do is bump it with my foot when in the up position, and it moves, and then it moves easier after that.

The thought occurred that maybe the bolt should be thinner, by jobstian logic - remember his claim that thinner spokes stretch more and thus go slack less easily, maybe the bolt that hold the think together is too beefy for it's own good? The one that comes with tha aluminum stands is pretty substantial - I don't have one in front of me but maybe 3/8 or even 7/16" thread? That will help reduce stripping of the threads in the Al it is going into, but it's not going to stretch much.

I tried replacing the little plate that goes on top of the chainstays with a steel one, but I used soft steel, and it bent when I tightened. I could make my own Al plate, and use a much smaller - 6mm or 1/4" bolt, and not thread the AL but put a nut on top of it. But the hole in the stand part is larger that. I spose that could be addressed by a collar.

?


Not all that common a problem at least with Greenfield USA
kickstands. Some riders more, most less.

If you think the bolt is loosening you could clean it and
add a smear of blue Loctite ($1 in a ketchup-pack size at
auto parts stores).

You ought to remove it and see if your chainstays are
deformed. I have seen some dramatically abused examples:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/ral182a.jpg

One thing which does seem effective is a kickstand plate:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/riv18g.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/her14c.jpg

easy enough on a steel frame, probably not for other
materials. Kickstands which get moved laterally can wiggle
that bolt loose, the plate prevents that and saves denting
of the stays somewhat (at least on the bottom).


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old July 31st 19, 04:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:44:56 PM UTC-4, Doug Landau wrote:
Why can I hardly ever get a kickstand to stay on tight? It seems like no matter how hard I tighten it, all I have to do is bump it with my foot when in the up position, and it moves, and then it moves easier after that.

The thought occurred that maybe the bolt should be thinner, by jobstian logic - remember his claim that thinner spokes stretch more and thus go slack less easily, maybe the bolt that hold the think together is too beefy for it's own good? The one that comes with tha aluminum stands is pretty substantial - I don't have one in front of me but maybe 3/8 or even 7/16" thread? That will help reduce stripping of the threads in the Al it is going into, but it's not going to stretch much.

I tried replacing the little plate that goes on top of the chainstays with a steel one, but I used soft steel, and it bent when I tightened. I could make my own Al plate, and use a much smaller - 6mm or 1/4" bolt, and not thread the AL but put a nut on top of it. But the hole in the stand part is larger that. I spose that could be addressed by a collar.


Here's what I've done. I've filed semi-cylindrical grooves in both the top
and the bottom aluminum plates that clamp the chainstays, carefully aligned
to match the contour of the chainstays. The grooves help keep the plates
properly aligned. And yes, I also use blue Loctite on that big screw.

On some bikes I've also put a layer of electrical tape between the plates
and the frame to reduce scratching. That's a separate issue, of course.

- Frank Krygowski

  #4  
Old July 31st 19, 05:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

Why can I hardly ever get a kickstand to stay on tight? It seems like no matter how hard I tighten it, all I have to do is bump it with my foot when in the up position, and it moves, and then it moves easier after that.

The thought occurred that maybe the bolt should be thinner, by jobstian logic - remember his claim that thinner spokes stretch more and thus go slack less easily, maybe the bolt that hold the think together is too beefy for it's own good? The one that comes with tha aluminum stands is pretty substantial - I don't have one in front of me but maybe 3/8 or even 7/16" thread? That will help reduce stripping of the threads in the Al it is going into, but it's not going to stretch much.

I tried replacing the little plate that goes on top of the chainstays with a steel one, but I used soft steel, and it bent when I tightened. I could make my own Al plate, and use a much smaller - 6mm or 1/4" bolt, and not thread the AL but put a nut on top of it. But the hole in the stand part is larger that. I spose that could be addressed by a collar.

?


What I've seen happen is that the kickstand has two plates, one of
which is positioned below the chain strays and the other above and a
bolt through both the top and bottom plate compresses the plates
against the stays, which flattens the tubular stays a bit and the
kick stand gets loose...

My cure is to make a steel plate about the size of the kick stand
bottom plate with ends that wrap up about 1/3 the diameter of the
stays, remove the existing chain stay bridge and braze the newly made
plate onto the bottom of the chain stays being careful to braze the
entire contact portions of the plate and tubes.

That when you bolt the kick stand onto the bike you tighten the
mounting bolt against two steel plates and it stays tight.

But then, I've been assured right here that real cyclists do not use
kickstands.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #5  
Old July 31st 19, 12:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:44:56 PM UTC-4, Doug Landau wrote:
Why can I hardly ever get a kickstand to stay on tight? It seems like no matter how hard I tighten it, all I have to do is bump it with my foot when in the up position, and it moves, and then it moves easier after that.

The thought occurred that maybe the bolt should be thinner, by jobstian logic - remember his claim that thinner spokes stretch more and thus go slack less easily, maybe the bolt that hold the think together is too beefy for it's own good? The one that comes with tha aluminum stands is pretty substantial - I don't have one in front of me but maybe 3/8 or even 7/16" thread? That will help reduce stripping of the threads in the Al it is going into, but it's not going to stretch much.

I tried replacing the little plate that goes on top of the chainstays with a steel one, but I used soft steel, and it bent when I tightened. I could make my own Al plate, and use a much smaller - 6mm or 1/4" bolt, and not thread the AL but put a nut on top of it. But the hole in the stand part is larger that. I spose that could be addressed by a collar.

?


I got rid of (and I get rid of) any kickstands t hat use those plates. Instead I use a kickstand that attaches to the seatstay and chainstay. I find those a lot more stable, I can turn the cranks if I need to adjust the shifting and they protect the left side of the rear wheel a bit when in the up position. The BIG PLUS is that they don't come loose.

Cheers
  #6  
Old July 31st 19, 12:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 12:38:37 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

Why can I hardly ever get a kickstand to stay on tight? It seems like no matter how hard I tighten it, all I have to do is bump it with my foot when in the up position, and it moves, and then it moves easier after that.

The thought occurred that maybe the bolt should be thinner, by jobstian logic - remember his claim that thinner spokes stretch more and thus go slack less easily, maybe the bolt that hold the think together is too beefy for it's own good? The one that comes with tha aluminum stands is pretty substantial - I don't have one in front of me but maybe 3/8 or even 7/16" thread? That will help reduce stripping of the threads in the Al it is going into, but it's not going to stretch much.

I tried replacing the little plate that goes on top of the chainstays with a steel one, but I used soft steel, and it bent when I tightened. I could make my own Al plate, and use a much smaller - 6mm or 1/4" bolt, and not thread the AL but put a nut on top of it. But the hole in the stand part is larger that. I spose that could be addressed by a collar.

?


What I've seen happen is that the kickstand has two plates, one of
which is positioned below the chain strays and the other above and a
bolt through both the top and bottom plate compresses the plates
against the stays, which flattens the tubular stays a bit and the
kick stand gets loose...

My cure is to make a steel plate about the size of the kick stand
bottom plate with ends that wrap up about 1/3 the diameter of the
stays, remove the existing chain stay bridge and braze the newly made
plate onto the bottom of the chain stays being careful to braze the
entire contact portions of the plate and tubes.

That when you bolt the kick stand onto the bike you tighten the
mounting bolt against two steel plates and it stays tight.

But then, I've been assured right here that real cyclists do not use
kickstands.
--
cheers,

John B.


I love a kickstand on my bikes. Far too many times I've stopped where there was nothing to lean the bike against and I'm one of those people who detest laying their bike on the ground.

Cheers
  #7  
Old July 31st 19, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On 7/31/2019 7:05 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 12:38:37 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

But then, I've been assured right here that real cyclists do not use
kickstands.
--


I love a kickstand on my bikes. Far too many times I've stopped where there was nothing to lean the bike against and I'm one of those people who detest laying their bike on the ground.


I haven't had a kickstand on any of my bikes since about 1976. (The
fitting tricks I described above were to install them on other people's
bikes.)

Back in the 1970s I worked with a guy who had done tons of cycling
growing up in Britain. He expressed surprise at my kickstand and said
"But there's always something to lean against." Also, he showed me the
trick of putting a pedal in the back-and-down position and propping that
pedal on the top surface of a curb. While it's not super-stable, it can
hold a bike up if the front wheel is also turned into the curb.

In any case, it wasn't long after that my bike toppled off its kickstand
yet again, and I decided to emulate him. Yes, I sometimes have to lay
the bike on the grass, but it's pretty rare, and I'm OK with that.

As I've mentioned, wedging something into the brake lever to hold the
front brake on makes the bike quite a bit more stable when parked.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #8  
Old July 31st 19, 03:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,346
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
:
: ?

:I got rid of (and I get rid of) any kickstands t hat use those
lates. Instead I use a kickstand that attaches to the seatstay and
:chainstay. I find those a lot more stable, I can turn the cranks if I
:need to adjust the shifting and they protect the left side of the rear
:wheel a bit when in the up position. The BIG PLUS is that they don't come
:loose.

They come loose. If you have a frame with the moutning bolts in the
chain stay, they probably dont or at least don't move when they do, but
with a clamp they do. I still use one, a pletscher multi flex with some
homebuilt bracketry to make it work with a disc brake.

--
sig 14
  #9  
Old July 31st 19, 05:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 10:56:51 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2019 7:05 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 12:38:37 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

But then, I've been assured right here that real cyclists do not use
kickstands.
--


I love a kickstand on my bikes. Far too many times I've stopped where there was nothing to lean the bike against and I'm one of those people who detest laying their bike on the ground.


I haven't had a kickstand on any of my bikes since about 1976. (The
fitting tricks I described above were to install them on other people's
bikes.)

Back in the 1970s I worked with a guy who had done tons of cycling
growing up in Britain. He expressed surprise at my kickstand and said
"But there's always something to lean against." Also, he showed me the
trick of putting a pedal in the back-and-down position and propping that
pedal on the top surface of a curb. While it's not super-stable, it can
hold a bike up if the front wheel is also turned into the curb.

In any case, it wasn't long after that my bike toppled off its kickstand
yet again, and I decided to emulate him. Yes, I sometimes have to lay
the bike on the grass, but it's pretty rare, and I'm OK with that.

As I've mentioned, wedging something into the brake lever to hold the
front brake on makes the bike quite a bit more stable when parked.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Wedging the pedal against the curb does NOT work where there are no curbs. ;)

Like I said in one of my other posts, where I ride there is often nothing to lean my bicycle against. I'm not about to lay me bike down either. For me a chainstay/seatstay kickstand works REALLY WELL. When I tour logging/mining roads in Norther Ontario (Canada) I sometimes use both a chainstay mounted kickstand (located ust behind the seatube) and a chainstay/seatstay mounted kickstand. I find this quite stable and it makes getting stuff from or into my panniers a lot easier. For use on soft ground or deep sand I have two plastic discs and use one under each kickstand.

Like so many things in bicycling, whether to use something or not depends on the individual and what works for one person may not be ideal for another..

When I was thinking about buying a Surly LOng Haul Trekker touring frame for 26" MTB wheels, I was SHOCKED when Surly informed me that use of a kickstand would VOID THE WARRANTY! THAT was a deal breaker for me and I did not and will not buy a Surly frame. YMMV

Cheers
  #10  
Old July 31st 19, 09:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,424
Default Keeping a kickstand on tight

Thanks for the replies.

I wonder what would happen if the upper plate were made of spring steel, but think that the other suggestions offered here sound better.



 




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