dangerous cyclist causes death of OAP

On Sat, 29 May 2010 17:42:33 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm




It is a pity that Simon Brooke (URCM Moderator) was not driving the
bus:

"I believe that if I am driving or cycling there is no chance of a
child running out in front of me and causing an accident."

On 29 May, 18:34, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message

news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm

With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out that if
the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have needed to brake so
hard, and therefore the poor person may still be alive.

I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and this view
may be unpopular.

Lower speed limits save lives.

And many bus drivers DLCs

Let me get this straight. A vulnerable road user is blamed for the
death of a vulnerable victim so that the killer driver is absolved
from blame twice over? I wonder if this could also happen with a trio,
or more, of vulnerable road users/victims and one killer driver?
Difficult to envisage but maybe someone can come up with a likely
scenario.

--
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

On 29 May, 23:24, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"Tony Dragon" wrote in message

...



Mrcheerful wrote:
"Squashme" wrote in message
....
On 29 May, 22:24, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 10:17 pm, Squashme wrote:

On 29 May, 21:01, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 6:34 pm, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm
With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out
that if
the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have needed to
brake so
hard, and therefore the poor person may still be alive.
I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and
this view
may be unpopular.
Lower speed limits save lives.
And many bus drivers DLCs
As you obviously seem to know how fast the bus was travelling at the
time, please do enlighten us. And then explain what would have been a
more appropriate speed, considering you have a complete understanding
of the area and circumstances.
Obviously, as a general point, non-lethal speed would have been a
better choice
That's nearly as unhelpful as mileburner's comment. What's a non-
lethal speed, in general? Zero would work, but not very viable. Not
knowing the circumstances of the injury sustained which led to the
passenger's death, how can you tell that it wasn't a freak of
unfortunate circumstances at a speed that would normally not result in
fatalities?

Well, if that were so, Mrcheerful wouldn't have titled this discussion
"dangerous cyclist causes death of OAP", now would he?

the bus driver had to brake so sharply because some cyclist pulled out in
front of him/her. *The deceleration was so rapid that one passenger
suffered a broken arm and one died from hitting her head. *It could be
said that the design of the bus seating arrangements is unsafe since
passengers can be unseated simply by the brakes of the vehicle, however,
hard braking would not have been needed if the cyclist had not made a
serious error.
*I would have run the cyclist down rather than braked so hard.

We also do not know if the passengers were seated, or perhaps one collided
with another.

even if they were standing, the cause remains with the cyclist.

So if a driver has to brake suddenly for any reason whatsoever, which
kills his passenger, then the cause of his sudden stop is to blame,
not the driver?

I have read many justifications for killer drivers, particularly on
this newsgroup, but this one has to cap them all.

--
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

On May 30, 7:37*am, Doug wrote:
On 29 May, 23:24, "Mrcheerful" wrote:



"Tony Dragon" wrote in message

...

Mrcheerful wrote:
"Squashme" wrote in message
...
On 29 May, 22:24, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 10:17 pm, Squashme wrote:

On 29 May, 21:01, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 6:34 pm, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm
With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out
that if
the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have needed to
brake so
hard, and therefore the poor person may still be alive.
I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and
this view
may be unpopular.
Lower speed limits save lives.
And many bus drivers DLCs
As you obviously seem to know how fast the bus was travelling at the
time, please do enlighten us. And then explain what would have been a
more appropriate speed, considering you have a complete understanding
of the area and circumstances.
Obviously, as a general point, non-lethal speed would have been a
better choice
That's nearly as unhelpful as mileburner's comment. What's a non-
lethal speed, in general? Zero would work, but not very viable. Not
knowing the circumstances of the injury sustained which led to the
passenger's death, how can you tell that it wasn't a freak of
unfortunate circumstances at a speed that would normally not result in
fatalities?

Well, if that were so, Mrcheerful wouldn't have titled this discussion
"dangerous cyclist causes death of OAP", now would he?

the bus driver had to brake so sharply because some cyclist pulled out in
front of him/her. *The deceleration was so rapid that one passenger
suffered a broken arm and one died from hitting her head. *It could be
said that the design of the bus seating arrangements is unsafe since
passengers can be unseated simply by the brakes of the vehicle, however,
hard braking would not have been needed if the cyclist had not made a
serious error.
*I would have run the cyclist down rather than braked so hard.

We also do not know if the passengers were seated, or perhaps one collided
with another.

even if they were standing, the cause remains with the cyclist.

So if a driver has to brake suddenly for any reason whatsoever, which
kills his passenger, then the cause of his sudden stop is to blame,
not the driver?

I have read many justifications for killer drivers, particularly on
this newsgroup, but this one has to cap them all.


So the bus driver should have not applied his brakes and simply run
over the 'vulnerable' cyclist who pulled out in front of him. Then the
old lady would not have been killed and another passenger injured, but
Dugh would have had a field day about the death of the cyclist. A no-
win situation!

Buses do not have seat belts and allow standing passenger, so
incidents of this type are always possibe.

Derek C

"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
news:75gMn.15963$dN2.7351@hurricane...

I would have run the cyclist down rather than braked so hard.
Are you a real bus driver?

FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 6:34 pm, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message

news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm

With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out
that if the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have
needed to brake so hard, and therefore the poor person may still be
alive.

I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and
this view may be unpopular.

Lower speed limits save lives.

And many bus drivers DLCs

As you obviously seem to know how fast the bus was travelling at the
time, please do enlighten us. And then explain what would have been a
more appropriate speed, considering you have a complete understanding
of the area and circumstances.

This might help:

I would like to point out that ***if*** the bus was not travelling quite so
fast, it ***may*** not have needed to brake so hard, and therefore the poor
person ***may*** still be alive.

Sometimes it is easier to read what you wnt to read. I hope this clears up
your misunderstanding.

Note: Busses are normally driven too fast in busy areas. Bus drivers
normally have little respect and regard for anyone else.

Doug wrote:
On 29 May, 18:34, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message

news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm

With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out
that if the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have
needed to brake so hard, and therefore the poor person may still be
alive.

I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and
this view may be unpopular.

Lower speed limits save lives.

And many bus drivers DLCs

Let me get this straight. A vulnerable road user is blamed for the
death of a vulnerable victim so that the killer driver is absolved
from blame twice over? I wonder if this could also happen with a trio,
or more, of vulnerable road users/victims and one killer driver?
Difficult to envisage but maybe someone can come up with a likely
scenario.

What you observe is that those most likely to be guilty, are the ones most
in need of somone else to blame.

I am sure as time goes by the poor woman who died will be blamed as well
"she should not have been standing" or whatever reason fits.

Mrcheerful wrote:
"Tony Dragon" wrote in message
...
Mrcheerful wrote:
"Squashme" wrote in message
...
On 29 May, 22:24, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 10:17 pm, Squashme wrote:



On 29 May, 21:01, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 6:34 pm, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm
With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out
that if
the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have needed to
brake so
hard, and therefore the poor person may still be alive.
I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and
this view
may be unpopular.
Lower speed limits save lives.
And many bus drivers DLCs
As you obviously seem to know how fast the bus was travelling at the
time, please do enlighten us. And then explain what would have been a
more appropriate speed, considering you have a complete understanding
of the area and circumstances.
Obviously, as a general point, non-lethal speed would have been a
better choice
That's nearly as unhelpful as mileburner's comment. What's a non-
lethal speed, in general? Zero would work, but not very viable. Not
knowing the circumstances of the injury sustained which led to the
passenger's death, how can you tell that it wasn't a freak of
unfortunate circumstances at a speed that would normally not result in
fatalities?
Well, if that were so, Mrcheerful wouldn't have titled this discussion
"dangerous cyclist causes death of OAP", now would he?

the bus driver had to brake so sharply because some cyclist pulled out in
front of him/her. The deceleration was so rapid that one passenger
suffered a broken arm and one died from hitting her head. It could be
said that the design of the bus seating arrangements is unsafe since
passengers can be unseated simply by the brakes of the vehicle, however,
hard braking would not have been needed if the cyclist had not made a
serious error.
I would have run the cyclist down rather than braked so hard.
We also do not know if the passengers were seated, or perhaps one collided
with another.

even if they were standing, the cause remains with the cyclist.



I agree it would appear so.

--
Tony Dragon

Doug wrote:
On 29 May, 23:24, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"Tony Dragon" wrote in message

...



Mrcheerful wrote:
"Squashme" wrote in message
...
On 29 May, 22:24, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 10:17 pm, Squashme wrote:
On 29 May, 21:01, FrengaX wrote:
On May 29, 6:34 pm, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm
With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out
that if
the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have needed to
brake so
hard, and therefore the poor person may still be alive.
I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and
this view
may be unpopular.
Lower speed limits save lives.
And many bus drivers DLCs
As you obviously seem to know how fast the bus was travelling at the
time, please do enlighten us. And then explain what would have been a
more appropriate speed, considering you have a complete understanding
of the area and circumstances.
Obviously, as a general point, non-lethal speed would have been a
better choice
That's nearly as unhelpful as mileburner's comment. What's a non-
lethal speed, in general? Zero would work, but not very viable. Not
knowing the circumstances of the injury sustained which led to the
passenger's death, how can you tell that it wasn't a freak of
unfortunate circumstances at a speed that would normally not result in
fatalities?
Well, if that were so, Mrcheerful wouldn't have titled this discussion
"dangerous cyclist causes death of OAP", now would he?
the bus driver had to brake so sharply because some cyclist pulled out in
front of him/her. The deceleration was so rapid that one passenger
suffered a broken arm and one died from hitting her head. It could be
said that the design of the bus seating arrangements is unsafe since
passengers can be unseated simply by the brakes of the vehicle, however,
hard braking would not have been needed if the cyclist had not made a
serious error.
I would have run the cyclist down rather than braked so hard.
We also do not know if the passengers were seated, or perhaps one collided
with another.
even if they were standing, the cause remains with the cyclist.

So if a driver has to brake suddenly for any reason whatsoever, which
kills his passenger, then the cause of his sudden stop is to blame,
not the driver?

Yes Doug, that is how blame works.
If the bus driver just stopped suddenly just for the hell of it, it
would probably be his fault.
But as the cyclist (from what we know) caused the bus driver to stop
suddenly, then it is the cyclists fault.

Lets try the train analogy, if the train hits a vehicle on a level
crossing (which is closed in favour of the train) & a rail passenger
dies, is it the train drivers fault?


I have read many justifications for killer drivers, particularly on
this newsgroup, but this one has to cap them all.

--
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

You may have read things, but you have failed to understand them.

--
Tony Dragon

Doug wrote:
On 29 May, 18:34, "mileburner" wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote in message

news:1ubMn.15870$dN2.3151@hurricane...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...r/10189702.stm
With all respect to everyone concerned, I would like to point out that if
the bus was not travelling quite so fast, it may not have needed to brake so
hard, and therefore the poor person may still be alive.

I further realise that drivers generally like someone to blame and this view
may be unpopular.

Lower speed limits save lives.

And many bus drivers DLCs

Let me get this straight. A vulnerable road user is blamed for the
death of a vulnerable victim so that the killer driver is absolved
from blame twice over? I wonder if this could also happen with a trio,
or more, of vulnerable road users/victims and one killer driver?
Difficult to envisage but maybe someone can come up with a likely
scenario.

--
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.


Not difficult, bus driver swerves to avoid careless cyclist, bus hits
another vehicle, many deaths & injuries result.
Cause of accident is the cyclist.

A similar accident happened a short while ago but involving a car
(although we do not know if it was the car drivers fault)
According to you the coach driver was to blame.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...overturns.html

--
Tony Dragon