A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

"Dangerous" Cantilers?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 27th 05, 11:15 PM
Robin Hubert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

Hit the CR key by mistake ... and now DSL quit ... delay in posting
.....

One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

"If there are no adjusting barrels provided, the bike is dangerous and
defective. Nobody should accept such incompetence."

I'm baffled by this. Inconvenient, maybe, but dangerous? Defective?


Comments appreciated.

Robin Hubert

Ads
  #2  
Old July 27th 05, 11:58 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?



Robin Hubert wrote:
Hit the CR key by mistake ... and now DSL quit ... delay in posting
....

One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

"If there are no adjusting barrels provided, the bike is dangerous and
defective. Nobody should accept such incompetence."

I'm baffled by this. Inconvenient, maybe, but dangerous? Defective?


Comments appreciated.


Inconvenient, maybe. "Dangerous" seems silly.

I think the concept of "safety" has the same place in our society that
the concept of "miracles" had in the dark ages. Back then, if you
described direct miraculous intervention by the Lord, all debate
ceased, no matter how implausible the tale. Anyone questioning was
obviously a heathen to be mocked and shunned.

These days, if anyone accepts something that isn't as "safe" as
possible, they are a heathen to be mocked and shunned.

Seems the age of reason came, then left again.

- Frank Krygowski

  #3  
Old July 28th 05, 12:48 AM
Sheldon Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

Robin Hubert wrote:

One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

"If there are no adjusting barrels provided, the bike is dangerous and
defective. Nobody should accept such incompetence."

I'm baffled by this. Inconvenient, maybe, but dangerous? Defective?


Drop bar levers tend to have slightly more mechanical advantage than
typical upright-style levers, and those are the ones that lack built-in
barrel adjusters.

Cantilever brakes can work very well with these, but the adjustment
becomes more critical.

Any rim brake should have some provision for taking up the cable slack
as the brake shoes wear, with no tools required.

If such adjusters are omitted, there's a much greater chance of the bike
being riddden with incorrectly adjusted brakes as the pads wear. This
is dangerous, expecially in wet conditions.

Even if the rider does take the trouble to re-adjust the cable at the
anchor bolt, when new shoes are installed the cable will then need to be
loosened again the same way, and now there will be a crimped, formerly
clamped section of cable as part of the working cable. This is much
more likely to break than a section of cable that has not been subject
to repeated clamping and re-clamping to accomplish the fine adjustment
that _should_ have been done with the barrel adjuster.

Sheldon "Perhaps I Should Have Said 'Mono-Buttocked'" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| Most people would sooner die than think; |
| in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

  #4  
Old July 28th 05, 03:40 AM
RonSonic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:48:25 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

Robin Hubert wrote:

One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

"If there are no adjusting barrels provided, the bike is dangerous and
defective. Nobody should accept such incompetence."

I'm baffled by this. Inconvenient, maybe, but dangerous? Defective?


Drop bar levers tend to have slightly more mechanical advantage than
typical upright-style levers, and those are the ones that lack built-in
barrel adjusters.

Cantilever brakes can work very well with these, but the adjustment
becomes more critical.

Any rim brake should have some provision for taking up the cable slack
as the brake shoes wear, with no tools required.

If such adjusters are omitted, there's a much greater chance of the bike
being riddden with incorrectly adjusted brakes as the pads wear. This
is dangerous, expecially in wet conditions.

Even if the rider does take the trouble to re-adjust the cable at the
anchor bolt, when new shoes are installed the cable will then need to be
loosened again the same way, and now there will be a crimped, formerly
clamped section of cable as part of the working cable. This is much
more likely to break than a section of cable that has not been subject
to repeated clamping and re-clamping to accomplish the fine adjustment
that _should_ have been done with the barrel adjuster.


I had a bike and the easiest adjustment for the front brake was adjusting the
stem up and down. A bit more awkward than a barrel on the lever, but it worked.

Sheldon "Perhaps I Should Have Said 'Mono-Buttocked'" Brown


Yep, that it was.

Ron

+--------------------------------------------+
| Most people would sooner die than think; |
| in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com


  #5  
Old July 28th 05, 07:54 AM
Werehatrack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

On 27 Jul 2005 15:15:55 -0700, "Robin Hubert"
wrote:

Hit the CR key by mistake ... and now DSL quit ... delay in posting
....

One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

"If there are no adjusting barrels provided, the bike is dangerous and
defective. Nobody should accept such incompetence."

I'm baffled by this. Inconvenient, maybe, but dangerous? Defective?


Bloody hard to make a canti setup without adjusters at the levers
unless you cross-breed it with a roadie, innit? I can't see that
working well anyway.

I think the cited assertion is an overreaction to a problem that's
hard to create to begin with. *If* a set of canti brake levers could
be found which lacked adjusting barrels, the system could still be
adjusted (inconveniently) using the cable clamp. I would score this
as a troll in its venue.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
  #6  
Old July 28th 05, 07:58 AM
Werehatrack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:48:25 -0400, Sheldon Brown
wrote:

Sheldon "Perhaps I Should Have Said 'Mono-Buttocked'" Brown


Or would it have been better expressed as "velocity drawn"? Naah, too
obscure for anybody but Fogel.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
  #8  
Old July 28th 05, 01:49 PM
David Damerell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

Quoting Werehatrack :
On 27 Jul 2005 15:15:55 -0700, "Robin Hubert"
One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

Bloody hard to make a canti setup without adjusters at the levers
unless you cross-breed it with a roadie, innit?


You mean like a very large proportion of touring bikes? Not so very hard
after all.
--
David Damerell flcl?
Today is Second Oneiros, July.
  #9  
Old July 28th 05, 03:18 PM
Jasper Janssen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

On 28 Jul 2005 13:49:35 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
wrote:
Quoting Werehatrack :
On 27 Jul 2005 15:15:55 -0700, "Robin Hubert"
One of our esteemed experts previously suggested that a cantilever
equipped bike without bbl adjusters is dangerous.

Bloody hard to make a canti setup without adjusters at the levers
unless you cross-breed it with a roadie, innit?


You mean like a very large proportion of touring bikes? Not so very hard
after all.


Touring bikes with drop bars are generally referred to as "randonneurs"
over here, though, and the proportion isn't so large.

Jasper
  #10  
Old July 28th 05, 04:43 PM
Sheldon Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Dangerous" Cantilers?

Werehatrack wrote:

Bloody hard to make a canti setup without adjusters at the levers
unless you cross-breed it with a roadie, innit? I can't see that
working well anyway.

I think the cited assertion is an overreaction to a problem that's
hard to create to begin with. *If* a set of canti brake levers could
be found which lacked adjusting barrels


There's no such thing as "canti brake levers" except in the imagination
of marketeers. The issue involves using drop bar brake levers with
chantilevers, as is done on virtually all touring bikes.

No current-production drop-bar brake lever incorporates a barrel
adjuster, but back when center-pull calipers were the hot thing,
virtually all "bike boom" tenspeeds had adjusters built into the housing
stops on the headset and seat cluster, even the cheapest models.

Thast is how it should be for modern bikes with drop bars and
cantilevers as well.

Alternatively, there are a variety of "in line" cable adjusters readily
available. Theres no excuse for trying to foist a bike off on a
customer that lacks some reasonable fine adjustment to deal with normal
brake pad wear.

No self-respecting mechanic would pass a bike with such a poor setup.

Sheldon "A Step Backwards" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a |
| thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that |
| cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be |
| impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Adams, RIP - HHGTTG |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.