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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
Hi,
My daughter has recently done a cycling course, run by the LA, at school. However, on the latest session, she was not allowed out on the road because the organisers believed the bike was too big or the saddle was too high. They told me that they were worried that she could not stop safely and she might go over the handlebars when braking! Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. I had adjusted it (using the same system as I use for me) so that her leg is just slightly bent when the peddle is at the bottom. She clears the top tube when off the saddle with both feet on the ground. I had recently moved her to a larger bike (24") because the next size down (20") was much too small. Any thoughts? -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups (")_(") I am blocking most articles posted from there. |
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#2
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
On 24 Apr, 10:08, Mark wrote:
My daughter has recently done a cycling course, run by the LA, at school. However, on the latest session, she was not allowed out on the road because the organisers believed the bike was too big or the saddle was too high. They told me that they were worried that she could not stop safely and she might go over the handlebars when braking! Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. Reading that hurts my knees. On my hybrid I have my saddle so that my leg is straight when the pedal is at the bottom. Anything lower gives me sore legs and is noticeably slower. I've had this position recommended to me by people who know more about bikes than I do. The handlebars are about level. I haven't once come close to going over the handlebars when braking; in fact, I've got used to being carried slightly forwards by my own momentum just after the bike stops, which drops me nicely into a standing position over the frame. (This will be a bad habit to be in if I ever switch to toeclips, I know.) Sounds like that rule is making cycling a lot harder than it should be. Unless it's different for kids, I suppose. Robin Johnson |
#3
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:08:51 +0100 someone who may be Mark
wrote this:- My daughter has recently done a cycling course, run by the LA, at school. However, on the latest session, she was not allowed out on the road because the organisers believed the bike was too big or the saddle was too high. They told me that they were worried that she could not stop safely and she might go over the handlebars when braking! Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. I had adjusted it (using the same system as I use for me) so that her leg is just slightly bent when the peddle is at the bottom. She clears the top tube when off the saddle with both feet on the ground. I think that the council officials don't know what they are talking about, which is not unusual with bikes. The only reason that I can think of for putting both feet on the ground while sitting in the saddle is to use the feet as not very effective brakes. Far better to use the brakes, I assume that your daughter was able to operate these effectively and thus come to a stop safely. As for going over the handlebars, is there a steady stream of people riding bikes with drop handlebars doing this? I would complain long and loud. Council officials are generally too arrogant to admit they made a mistake, apologise and rectify the problem they caused. However, they do sometimes secretly change things after feedback. Was this the last session, or are there more to come? -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:44:07 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be
wrote this:- Sounds like that rule is making cycling a lot harder than it should be. Indeed. Perhaps that is the real objective, get those dammed cyclists off the road and driving cars as soon as possible. Unless it's different for kids, I suppose. I don't think it is. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
#5
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
"Mark" wrote in message ... Hi, My daughter has recently done a cycling course, run by the LA, at school. However, on the latest session, she was not allowed out on the road because the organisers believed the bike was too big or the saddle was too high. They told me that they were worried that she could not stop safely and she might go over the handlebars when braking! Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. I had adjusted it (using the same system as I use for me) so that her leg is just slightly bent when the peddle is at the bottom. She clears the top tube when off the saddle with both feet on the ground. I had recently moved her to a larger bike (24") because the next size down (20") was much too small. Any thoughts? They're wrong. If I were you I'd print out a setup guide from Sheldon Brown or similar (or perhaps 2 or three) proving that saddle height is fairly vital to pedalling efficiency, and that it's used by all serious cyclists, even mountain bikers (barring your jump and downhill boys) who stand far more chance of going over the bars. Enough standover height for both feet on the ground off the saddle is sensible, but all both feet on the ground on the saddle will achieve is knackered joints and tired kids. It is a fairly common fear (not liking not being able to put both feet down whilst seated) amongst people who aren't used to cycling IME. |
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:53:24 +0100, David Hansen
wrote: On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:08:51 +0100 someone who may be Mark wrote this:- My daughter has recently done a cycling course, run by the LA, at school. However, on the latest session, she was not allowed out on the road because the organisers believed the bike was too big or the saddle was too high. They told me that they were worried that she could not stop safely and she might go over the handlebars when braking! Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. I had adjusted it (using the same system as I use for me) so that her leg is just slightly bent when the peddle is at the bottom. She clears the top tube when off the saddle with both feet on the ground. I think that the council officials don't know what they are talking about, which is not unusual with bikes. The only reason that I can think of for putting both feet on the ground while sitting in the saddle is to use the feet as not very effective brakes. Far better to use the brakes, I assume that your daughter was able to operate these effectively and thus come to a stop safely. Yes, but she is not yet strong enough to lock the wheels under braking. As for going over the handlebars, is there a steady stream of people riding bikes with drop handlebars doing this? I don't think any of them have drop handlebars. Most kids have Mountain bikes (I mean BSOs). I would complain long and loud. Council officials are generally too arrogant to admit they made a mistake, apologise and rectify the problem they caused. However, they do sometimes secretly change things after feedback. Was this the last session, or are there more to come? There are more to come, but I was told she would not be allowed to use the same bike on the road. I thought I was right, but it is good to make sure. I will be writing a letter to the school or maybe the LA. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups (")_(") I am blocking most articles posted from there. |
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
Mark wrote:
My daughter has recently done a cycling course, run by the LA, at school. However, on the latest session, she was not allowed out on the road because the organisers believed the bike was too big or the saddle was too high. They told me that they were worried that she could not stop safely and she might go over the handlebars when braking! Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. I had adjusted it (using the same system as I use for me) so that her leg is just slightly bent when the peddle is at the bottom. She clears the top tube when off the saddle with both feet on the ground. With my cycle trainer's hat on, once you're up to speed the method you've used is what we were taught to teach for a good first base on saddle adjustment (and what i've used myself for years, and what is on the http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pj...ke.htm#fitting page of the Cycling and Your Child website, which has been audited by urc including active cycle trainers). A little fettling up and down from there may be in order to suit personal taste and physiology, but it's a good start. But it does assume you're up to speed. Now, I can't say from here whether I think your daughter qualifies as "up to speed", but at the start of a course it would be a reasonable assumption that she might not be and in that case a start with both feet down while sat may be a Good Thing. *But*, at the end of a course I would hope that you'd be competent at stopping, coming down off the saddle as necessary, before you were let loose on traffic. In other words, if they think you can't go out on roads because you can't put both feet down while sat in the saddle I think they're putting the cart before the horse. Before you get on to the road you should be able to prove you can stop safely without toppling over sideways or doing a head-plant over the bars, and if you can prove you can stop safely with the saddle at a proper height off the road then you've proved you can do it on the road. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#9
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:08:51 +0100
Mark wrote: Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. Sounds like something for the wee tots. As in, pre-school age. Any thoughts? FWIW, I had my first own bike at age 10. Before that I'd only ever used *adult* bikes owned (though not used) by (adult, female) members of my family. Of course I couldn't reach the saddles, but was able to ride them standing on the pedals. If there's a moral, it's something about children being much more flexible and adaptable than adults. Contrast me now: I have a new bike (bought last week:-), and I'm fussing over things like adjusting the saddle and bars to optimum comfort on both uphill and downhill! -- not me guv |
#10
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Cycling at schools - bike size/saddle height
Mark writtificated
Their criteria is that the child must be able to place *both* feet on the ground whilst sitting on the saddle. The heel on pedal and knee slightly bent thing is a good starting point for getting the optimum pedalling efficiency. This does tend to result in only being able to stand on tiptoes when still on the saddle. The solution is to lean the bike and get one foot down, stand astride the top tube and get both feet down, or just stand on tiptoe (easier with stiff cycling shoes. Many beginner cyclists prefer to sacrifice efficiency for the greater convenience of being able to stop without fear of toppling over. This makes perfect sense as long as they are aware that pedalling will take more effort - if they're trundling along at 10mph they're not going to be too concerned at putting in 10% more power - it's prolly still less than walking. Can your daughter ride the bike confidently, and stop and start safely? If she could not do this the instructors were right not to let her out on the roads. Might be an idea to check she can start and stop safely (including moving away after stopping in too high a gear). If she is competent and safe on the bike then showing them something from cyclecraft should do the trick. Being rude, angry or patronising will prolly make them dig in and behave like stubborn children so tact will be needed. |
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