Lane positioning at stoplight

"Boyd Speerschneider" wrote

At an intersection of a road with no bike lane, I pass all of the cars on
the right and line up first at the stop light. I then go when the light
is
green. This doesn't hold anyone up who intends to turn right for two
reasons:

1) They would have all ready gone.
2) I'm usually through the intersection before the car behind overcomes
its
moment of inertia.

Potential problem with this is, in an area with short blocks, it's possible
to pass the same car(s) again and again. and making them pass you multiple
times as well.

Pete

Read, understand and practice Effective Cycling as presented in the book of
the same name by John Forester, taught by LABs LCI program and continually
debated and polished in the Chainguard and Bicycle Transportation Institute
e-mail discussion lists. This is not rocket science. Use the internet,
grasshopper.


"Matthew" wrote in message
...
Saturday was my first ride with a local club. Toward the end of the ride,
we
came to a red light at a busy intersection with only one lane of traffic
in
each direction. The route went straight through the intersection. Most of
the club riders rode to the right of the cars stopped at the light and
waited at the intersection for a green light. It seemed to me this was
unfair to drivers and held up car traffic as most of them were turning
right. Another rider rode to the left of the cars and, if everyone had
done
the same, would have allowed drivers turning right to proceed but may have
been dangerous if a driver was turning left. I stopped behind the last car
in line at the intersection and proceeded as I would have if I were
driving
a car. This seemed like the safest option to me but I'm wondering how more
experienced riders handle intersections such as this.

Additional note: There was a county sheriff in the line of cars and he
didn't cite any of the cyclist so I assume he didn't see any grave
mistake.

TIA
Matthew

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:01:25 -0600, Matthew
wrote:
been dangerous if a driver was turning left. I stopped behind the last
car
in line at the intersection and proceeded as I would have if I were

This is my preferred method in that situation. It works.

Additional note: There was a county sheriff in the line of cars and he
didn't cite any of the cyclist so I assume he didn't see any grave
mistake.

He probably thought he'd look silly ticketing a cyclist.

I expect the whole thing was probably a bit scary, or at
least offensive, to automotive drivers -- bicycles suddenly
descend on their position, to the left, the right, and the
rear. Icky.

TIA
Matthew
--
Rick Onanian

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:01:25 +0000, Matthew wrote:

intersection. Most of the club riders rode to the right of the cars
stopped at the light and waited at the intersection for a green light. It
seemed to me this was unfair to drivers and held up car traffic as most of
them were turning right.

Never pull to the right of a car with a right turn signal on. It's rude,
as well as dangerous. I presume that the cars that were turning right had
their turn signals on? If not, then... remember that the cars pass bikes
as if the shoulder were another lane. It seems reasonable for riders to
treat it as such -- unless the car's turn signal is on, or it's a right
turn lane.

Another rider rode to the left of the cars and,
if everyone had done the same, would have allowed drivers turning right to
proceed but may have been dangerous if a driver was turning left.

So, the poor driver waiting for the light was swarmed by riders on all
sides. Great. Group rides should be more aware of this difficulty, but
it is impossible to control everyone in a group.

*I
stopped behind the last car in line at the intersection and proceeded as I
would have if I were driving a car.

Gee, as if you were real traffic. How novel.

This seemed like the safest option to
me but I'm wondering how more experienced riders handle intersections such
as this.

It is indeed the safest option. It will also get you honked at by the
drunken fool behind you who screams "Get off the road". You can't win at
some things.

I will use the right shoulder, if there is room, if I have been passed by
drivers who treat the shoulder as a bike lane. I typically will not go to
the front of the line, just in case that front car is turning right and
did not bother with a turn signal (I*used to live in the South, so do not
expect drivers to use turn signals). Second-in-line is safer.

On the other hand, if there is not an adequate shoulder, take the lane as
you would when moving along the road. Treat yourself as traffic. Never
use a right turn lane if you are going straight. Use the right-most lane
consistent with your intended path.


Additional note: There was a county sheriff in the line of cars and he
didn't cite any of the cyclist so I assume he didn't see any grave
mistake.

He probably just did not give a damn. Cyclist invisibility works both
ways.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:16:26 +0000, Pete wrote:

Potential problem with this is, in an area with short blocks, it's
possible to pass the same car(s) again and again. and making them pass you
multiple times as well.

No. You are keeping up with traffic in that case. No one has to pass
you. If they end up at the same time at the same intersection either way,
all you are doing is keeping them from that thrill of motor-vehicular
speed.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | There is always an easy solution to every human problem - neat,
_`\(,_ | plausible, and wrong. --H.L. Mencken
(_)/ (_) |

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:38:56 -0400, David L. Johnson
wrote:
I will use the right shoulder, if there is room, if I have been passed by
drivers who treat the shoulder as a bike lane. I typically will not go

Good point.

did not bother with a turn signal (I*used to live in the South, so do not
expect drivers to use turn signals). Second-in-line is safer.

How is lack of turn-signal usage unique to the south?

Here in RI, people only use turn signals when they're
driving straight down the highway, or turning the
opposite way of the direction their turn signal is on.
Usually, they just don't bother.

On the other hand, if there is not an adequate shoulder, take the lane as
you would when moving along the road. Treat yourself as traffic. Never
use a right turn lane if you are going straight. Use the right-most lane
consistent with your intended path.

This is an oft-missed but important point. It seems
intuitive to me, that if you're taking the lane for
the reasons one often takes the lane, that you would
NOT be in the right-turn-only lane to go straight.

It does sometimes feel weird going so far into the
sea of pavement swarmed with cars...but it works.

--
Rick Onanian

Boyd Speerschneider wrote
At an intersection of a road with no bike lane, I pass all of the cars on
the right and line up first at the stop light. I then go when the light is
green. This doesn't hold anyone up who intends to turn right for two
reasons:

1) They would have all ready gone.
2) I'm usually through the intersection before the car behind overcomes its
moment of inertia.

I used to do this sometimes, but the problem I found was that the
light could change just as I arrived at the front of the queue, and
this was the perfect setup for a right-hook. Also, the drivers don't
like having to pass me again if the travel lanes are narrow.

I get in line with the other traffic, unless the line is so long that
I think I will miss the next light cycle, in which case I may filter
forward just enough to merge in line in time to make the next green. I
don't ride many places where that is an issue, though, so I'm almost
always getting in line early.

Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/

"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:16:26 +0000, Pete wrote:

Potential problem with this is, in an area with short blocks, it's
possible to pass the same car(s) again and again. and making them pass
you
multiple times as well.

No. You are keeping up with traffic in that case. No one has to pass
you. If they end up at the same time at the same intersection either way,
all you are doing is keeping them from that thrill of motor-vehicular
speed.

Picture this:
You're at the front of the line. The light changes, off you go.
About 5 of the cars pass you before they stop at the next red light.
You filter up to the front, going by those same cars.
The light changes...off you go.

In between the lights...those same cars pass you again

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Pete

"Pete" a écrit dans le message news:
...

"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:16:26 +0000, Pete wrote:

Potential problem with this is, in an area with short blocks, it's
possible to pass the same car(s) again and again. and making them pass
you
multiple times as well.

No. You are keeping up with traffic in that case. No one has to pass
you. If they end up at the same time at the same intersection either
way,
all you are doing is keeping them from that thrill of motor-vehicular
speed.

Picture this:
You're at the front of the line. The light changes, off you go.
About 5 of the cars pass you before they stop at the next red light.
You filter up to the front, going by those same cars.
The light changes...off you go.

In between the lights...those same cars pass you again

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Pete

Yes, that's what driving in traffic is about, in a car or on a bike. If your
are in a different lane (actually or functionally), it is normal that
happens.

"Pete" wrote i

Potential problem with this is, in an area with short blocks, it's possible
to pass the same car(s) again and again. and making them pass you multiple
times as well.

I know. This is annoying.

If the damn cars can't keep up, why do they keep passing me?

CC