Lane positioning at stoplight

In article , "Doug Huffman"
writes:

Read, understand and practice Effective Cycling as presented in the book of
the same name by John Forester, taught by LABs LCI program and continually
debated and polished in the Chainguard and Bicycle Transportation Institute
e-mail discussion lists. This is not rocket science. Use the internet,
grasshopper.


Finally, another smart-ass holier-than-thou response.

In article ,
writes:

when I'm naturally at the front, I scooch as far over to the left as I
can and sometimes also poke out into the crosswalk (where there is one)
so cars to the right can make right turns.



I've tried offering this same courtesy with right-turn-on-red situations, but
on several occasions, I've had automobiles come up on my right side and not
make the right turn, but continue straight. This ends up creating a dangeroues
situation when the light turns green.

Very good. Attack the messenger. Fine.

Read the damn book and argue with it.

You can osculate upon my fundament, you ignorant fellatrix.

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.


"MRiordan95" wrote in message
...
In article , "Doug Huffman"
writes:

Read, understand and practice Effective Cycling as presented in the book
of
the same name by John Forester, taught by LABs LCI program and
continually
debated and polished in the Chainguard and Bicycle Transportation
Institute
e-mail discussion lists. This is not rocket science. Use the internet,
grasshopper.


Finally, another smart-ass holier-than-thou response.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:47:24 +0000, Pete wrote:


Picture this:
You're at the front of the line. The light changes, off you go. About 5 of
the cars pass you before they stop at the next red light. You filter up to
the front, going by those same cars. The light changes...off you go.

In between the lights...those same cars pass you again

Now picture a driver staying behind you. That driver hits the same lights
at the same time as the ones that "have to" pass you over and over.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

Doug Huffman repeated:

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.


That's a good way to explain the deification of John Forester.

cheers,
Robert

If you have a substantive criticism then make it. Otherwise, your anonymous
retort is not effective.

Osculate my fundament.


"R15757" wrote in message
...
Doug Huffman repeated:

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.


That's a good way to explain the deification of John Forester.

cheers,
Robert

If you have a substantive criticism then make it. Otherwise, your anonymous
retort is not effective.

Osculate my fundament.



Osculate my fundament! That's great.

If you have a substantive criticism then make it.

Vehicular cycling is based on the idea that traffic moves according to the
basic principles of traffic law. But that is not how traffic moves. Traffic is
a mess. Once you realize that traffic is a mess, you need a system that is
based on this reality, and Forester's ain't it.

There is much overlap between vehicular cycling and more enlightened styles,
but a fundamental difference in attitude.

Robert

"Matthew" wrote in message ...
Most of
the club riders rode to the right of the cars stopped at the light and
waited at the intersection for a green light. It seemed to me this was
unfair to drivers and held up car traffic as most of them were turning
right.

In the city I live in, bicycles are a common sight everywhere. The
standard practice here (which means drivers already expect cyclists to
do this) is to ride up to the right of the car, but not ahead of it
unless you're sure the car is going straight. (Yes Virginia, some
people still use their turn signal lights). A standard place to stop
is the spot on the curb just before the curb curves to the right.
This way, there's room for right-turning cars. If there is a car
wanting to turn right, it would usually make it while you're still
stopped. If the car could not go and had to wait for the green light,
cars usually let cyclists through first. Sometimes eye contact
happens, but mostly, right-turning cars yield to cyclists and/or
pedestrians. But then again, you may meet up with the occasional
jerk. Other times, cars are already halfway turned (that's why you
never stop ahead of him). It would be stupid to cut these cars when
the green light comes on.

Basically, if the car can turn right while you're still stopped, don't
block their way and let them through. Just common courtesy.

Another rider rode to the left of the cars and, if everyone had done
the same, would have allowed drivers turning right to proceed but may have
been dangerous if a driver was turning left.

Riding on the left is pretty dangerous and would confuse drivers. I
only do that if the right lane is a clearly marked right-turn only
lane and I want to go straight, or the right lane separates from the
middle lane once past the light.

I stopped behind the last car
in line at the intersection and proceeded as I would have if I were driving
a car. This seemed like the safest option to me but I'm wondering how more
experienced riders handle intersections such as this.

I've seen that sometimes but I've never done that myself (I would feel
stupid for doing it). I've only lined behind a car in two situations:
(1) there is no room on the right, (2) I'm lining up behind
left-turning cars in the left-turn lane. Then again in situation #2,
I've also been known to line up on the right of and slightly ahead of
the first left-turning car in left-turn lanes.

I stopped behind the last car in line at the intersection and
proceeded as I would have if I were driving a car. This seemed like
the safest option to me but I'm wondering how more experienced riders
handle intersections such as this.

I've seen that sometimes but I've never done that myself (I would
feel stupid for doing it).

I don't understand why you would feel stupid for operating as a
vehicle. Is the traffic where you ride so light as to allow for
consistent mistakes? Are the motorists where you ride paragons
of rule oriented operation?

It helps to ride within a paradigm that allows a certain amount
of flexiblity, but doesn't put the cyclist at risk in common
traffic situations.

Don't get squeezed against the curb is basic. Your options
aren't going to increase in that situation.

You need to be in the lane and maintaining lane control and
dominance in such a way as to preserve your safety and maneuver
options. Riding a straight line, not dodging in and out.

A cab yesterday thought to drift into my line, he was zoned out,
probably from too many hours on the road. I knew what he was
about, I drove taxi for three years. He wasn't seeing me, so
I gave him the boot. That is I kicked the side of his car to
get his attention. It worked. He backed off and merged
behind me.

There is much more to traffic riding than is in the book.

But you shouldn't get out there with a less than assertive,
I'm not saying aggressive, just assertive, mentality. And
above all make sure that you know where you're going and
how you intend to do it in the context of your particular
environment.

Keep an active safety zone, read the book, take a course.

Stay alive. Don't reinvent what thousands of cyclists
before you have refined into procedures that work in practice.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

17 Sep 2003 23:17:37 -0700,
,
(Ed Alban) wrote:

Basically, if the car can turn right while you're still stopped, don't
block their way and let them through. Just common courtesy.

You know, I regularly let cars hug the gutter if they're turning
right, and oddly enough, most drivers appreciate it. They appreciate
it a whole lot more than I do dancing around a dozed out right hook.
If you're out between the left tire track and paint stripe, they can
share the lane for their turn and you're lane positioned for going
straight through.

I'll change to the right side of the lane crossing the intersection
ahead of the vehicle that might not have turned, using a 'right hand'
turn signal, sorta pointing to where I'm going. (unless it's some
weirdo gone ape**** over seeing a bike in that part of the lane and
wants to drag race)

Body language plays an important part of lane positioning. You can
stick out your elbow, lean your bike and angle the front wheel to
appear larger, or smaller.
--
zk