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#11
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recumbent frustration
Victor Kan wrote:
Anyway, here's a long reply that at least tangentially has something to do with the original post :-). Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, I was making fun of my own post being only tangetially related to the original post, not what others have written, all of which pretty much has been directly related to the original post. -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies. |
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#12
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recumbent frustration
Many things can keep you from being faster.
Probably the biggest factor would be your conditioning. How long did you train on the bent before starting that big tour? If it was less than two weeks, that would explain a lot of your frustration. And I know very few folks who will get faster during a thousand mile tour. I've never ridden a phantom, but I have a RANS rocket, and it's pretty easy for me to keep that bike at a 17-19mph clip, especially with another rider to draft. (Yes, you can draft with uprights and they can draft off you.) A strada will almost certainly be a faster bike, but it sounds to me like the problem isn't the bike. |
#13
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recumbent frustration
Many things can keep you from being faster.
Probably the biggest factor would be your conditioning. How long did you train on the bent before starting that big tour? If it was less than two weeks, that would explain a lot of your frustration. And I know very few folks who will get faster during a thousand mile tour. I've never ridden a phantom, but I have a RANS rocket, and it's pretty easy for me to keep that bike at a 17-19mph clip, especially with another rider to draft. (Yes, you can draft with uprights and they can draft off you.) A strada will almost certainly be a faster bike, but it sounds to me like the problem isn't the bike. |
#14
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recumbent frustration
Gary,
My V-Rex did the same thing. If you call RANS they will send you a shim for your seat free of charge that will help keep the seat from moving. It worked for me. Scott. Gary Fritz wrote in message . .. Cletus Lee wrote: In addition to spinning, you need to fine tune the seat to pedal distance. a change of 1/4" can make a big difference. This has always bothered me. On my V-Rex seat, my butt slides all over the place. I'd say there's at least 1", probably more like 2" of travel while I ride. How can I fine-tune the seat/pedal distance by 1/4" if my "seat" is moving 1-2" all the time?? Gary |
#15
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recumbent frustration
Gary,
My V-Rex did the same thing. If you call RANS they will send you a shim for your seat free of charge that will help keep the seat from moving. It worked for me. Scott. Gary Fritz wrote in message . .. Cletus Lee wrote: In addition to spinning, you need to fine tune the seat to pedal distance. a change of 1/4" can make a big difference. This has always bothered me. On my V-Rex seat, my butt slides all over the place. I'd say there's at least 1", probably more like 2" of travel while I ride. How can I fine-tune the seat/pedal distance by 1/4" if my "seat" is moving 1-2" all the time?? Gary |
#16
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recumbent frustration
My experience is opposite from yours, though I'm not responding in
order to preach about recumbents. Whether you had enough development time or not, 1600 miles should have shown a difference from your Bianchi days. That's a real bummer. I hope the next bent draws more positive results for you. It's a tribute to your own perseverance that you haven't dismissed recumbents altogether. It really is a different, and improved (in my opinion), biking experience from a Bianchi or any cafe racer, but that impression is only relevant if it is yours and not mine. |
#17
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recumbent frustration
My experience is opposite from yours, though I'm not responding in
order to preach about recumbents. Whether you had enough development time or not, 1600 miles should have shown a difference from your Bianchi days. That's a real bummer. I hope the next bent draws more positive results for you. It's a tribute to your own perseverance that you haven't dismissed recumbents altogether. It really is a different, and improved (in my opinion), biking experience from a Bianchi or any cafe racer, but that impression is only relevant if it is yours and not mine. |
#18
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recumbent frustration
I stand corrected, I should have used the term "relatively" The Bianchi is
relatively expensive compared to the gamut of df bikes, but the Phantom is relatively inexpensive for a recumbent. However, I don't think your tangent actually is a tangent at all. How are trikes, your experience with fit related to various df bikes, and advocating owning both styles of bike related to the question posted, which was "Can I expect similar speeds on my bent as compared to my df?"? I gave my opinions on this question, while you went on a multi topic ramble, never answering the question posted. "Victor Kan" wrote in message . com... baronn1 wrote: Typically, it takes many hundreds of miles to train your bent legs. And you are correct that thePahntom is much heavier, with a less efficient drive train. So, you got off a fairly expensive, very light road bike, onto a heavier bike that uses different muscles than what you've been conditioning these many years.I You should also describe the Phantom as a "fairly expensive" bike, being priced at $1450 with low end components. Anyway, here's a long reply that at least tangentially has something to do with the original post :-). My experience these past few months has been in the opposite direction of most folks in this newsgroup. Back in May, I purchased an upright bike, a Specialized Sequoia Sport road bike with various, alleged comfort features (some are really to make it easier to manufacture and stock fewer models to cover a wider range of potential buyers), like: - carbon fork with some shock absorbing elastomer embedded in the middle of each blade - suspension seat post - Body Geometry (tm) saddle with center channel cutaway and substantial, though firm, padding - anatomic handle bars and cushy tape - two sets of brake levers (the usual Shimano dual-control brake+shifter levers, plus MTB style levers on the flats - longer chain stays - adjustable stem - compact frame geometry, good for fitting to shorter riders - road triple crank For the most part, I'm loving it, confirming that my discomfort with my first "real bike", a Trek 2x6-speed road bike, was likely more due to bad sizing than anything else. It was a 56cm frame, and a little to big for me, while the Specialized is a "compact" frame in the medium size, which is supposedly the equivalent of a 54cm. That's not to say that I don't also love my recumbent (a Wicks Trimuter tadpole trike, and before that, a Linear Mach III, which I gave to my cousin since I stopped riding it once I got the trike). I do love it. But I have different goals for the two HPVs. A few years ago, I gave up cycling because of pain, from pretty much all over--back, neck, shoulders, arms, hands, butt, 'nads, you name it, it hurt. Then a few months later I got the bug again and decided to "do it right" and get properly sized for a bike. Then I heard about recumbents and figured I'd try something completely different instead. After trying a few bikes at Larry Black's annual Bent Event in Mt. Airy, MD, I fell in love with the Linear Mach III CLWB. When I got it home, I took it out on my usual bike commuting route, 10 miles of rolling hills in both directions. I was able to do it at pretty much the same average speed, maybe one MPH less. I quickly got to the same average. Then I tried a local triker's Greenspeed GTR, fell in love with that ("gotta get me one of those!" was my reaction after about five seconds on the thing), and got a Wicks Trimuter clone of the GTS. Switching from the ~30 pound Mach III to the 50+ lb Trimuter (nominally 42 lbs stock, but I carry a bit too much stuff in the panniers, just because I can :-), I started out at the same average speed instantly, and even gained one MPH eventually. The trike is wonderful for "just riding" (don't think about tipping over into traffic, ignoring most minor road hazards, etc.). It's wonderful for pulling G's in fast turns. It's amazing if there's a long, steep downhill where I can reach a very stable 40+ mph with the SRAM 3x7 hub in overdrive. It's great for towing a trailer or carrying loads. But the darned thing is bulky and heavy. When I get it to work I have to do a hysterical ballet of sorts to open both doors just to get the thing through the portal. So I wanted to get a more petite, lighter HPV (couldn't get much heavier than the Trimuter+panniers_full_of_stuff if I tried) that I could go faster with, and move around more easily, that didn't take up so much floor space. In looking around at what's available, I figured I'd be happy only with something like a Windcheetah, Trice Micro (though I might not fit into one :-), a Catrike Speed, or on the bike front, a Reynolds T-Bone (gotta luv that USS!) or a Bacchetta Corsa (maybe a Giro) or a Volae Club (maybe a Tour). But the price tags were a bit on the high side, even for the lower end big+small wheel variants of the bikes. So I figured I'd go with my original plan of a few years ago and try an upright road bike that really fit me well. Well, the Sequoia Sport fit the bill. It's not a weight weenie kind of bike (I think it was like 25 or 26 pounds with all the gizmos). It fits me very well. The saddle pretty much works. I feel no butt pain (at least no different than recumbent butt), though I occasionally get a "nutcracker" kind of feeling that I hope to adjust away with some saddle realignment (yeah right! Dream on, I can hear everyone saying). And my hands do get numb if I keep them in the same position for a few miles, which is OK for my intended use of this bike, mainly for occasional short rides during the work day, or when I want to ride home on a day I drove into work, or where I rode the trike into work, but want to get home faster for some reason (like today where thunderstorms were threatening and I left work later than I should have). Yep, to get home faster. Short of having an all downhill route where the recumbent's aerodynamics easily win out over its weight and other inefficiency disadvantages, the upright road bike is significantly faster for me. I've been recumbent-only for years now, yet when I took my first rides on the upright, I was instantly at least 2 MPH faster over the same routes of rolling hills, no special training of "upright muscles" needed. Yes, my computers were calibrated right. I really did fly up hills vs. the trike. Some hills I'd have to work at to get up at reasonable speed on the trike I could almost coast up with the bike, and at higher speeds. Today I had special motivation with the thunder clouds blowing in and did a personal best on my commute route home, reaching 19.3 MPH average on the bike based on real clock time (I must have moved my wheel magnet when pumping the tires 'cuz the computer wasn't working properly tonight), whereas when I rode to work on the trike this morning, I eeked out a 15.1 MPH ride on the slightly easier route (about a mile longer, but fewer big hills) coming into work, based on auto-start ride time. Granted, I was really, really motivated to get home without being rained on--the last time I rode home in the rain on the Mach III, I was so "traumatized" that I didn't ride it for several months afterward. So what does all this rambling on mean? For me, and likely other folks, a relatively inexpensive, but properly fitting upright road bike is a good complement to a good recumbent that cost a heck of a lot more (about 3x in my case), weighs a lot more (2x in my case), with a less efficient chain line, but better aerodynamics and overall greater comfort. I've decided to platoon these two HPVs of mine. Ride one into work, ride the other one home. I think maintaining "recumbent muscles" along with "upright muscles" is working out well for me, improving my pedaling technique on both, and motivating me to ride more. Phew, that was a long post! -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies. |
#19
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recumbent frustration
I stand corrected, I should have used the term "relatively" The Bianchi is
relatively expensive compared to the gamut of df bikes, but the Phantom is relatively inexpensive for a recumbent. However, I don't think your tangent actually is a tangent at all. How are trikes, your experience with fit related to various df bikes, and advocating owning both styles of bike related to the question posted, which was "Can I expect similar speeds on my bent as compared to my df?"? I gave my opinions on this question, while you went on a multi topic ramble, never answering the question posted. "Victor Kan" wrote in message . com... baronn1 wrote: Typically, it takes many hundreds of miles to train your bent legs. And you are correct that thePahntom is much heavier, with a less efficient drive train. So, you got off a fairly expensive, very light road bike, onto a heavier bike that uses different muscles than what you've been conditioning these many years.I You should also describe the Phantom as a "fairly expensive" bike, being priced at $1450 with low end components. Anyway, here's a long reply that at least tangentially has something to do with the original post :-). My experience these past few months has been in the opposite direction of most folks in this newsgroup. Back in May, I purchased an upright bike, a Specialized Sequoia Sport road bike with various, alleged comfort features (some are really to make it easier to manufacture and stock fewer models to cover a wider range of potential buyers), like: - carbon fork with some shock absorbing elastomer embedded in the middle of each blade - suspension seat post - Body Geometry (tm) saddle with center channel cutaway and substantial, though firm, padding - anatomic handle bars and cushy tape - two sets of brake levers (the usual Shimano dual-control brake+shifter levers, plus MTB style levers on the flats - longer chain stays - adjustable stem - compact frame geometry, good for fitting to shorter riders - road triple crank For the most part, I'm loving it, confirming that my discomfort with my first "real bike", a Trek 2x6-speed road bike, was likely more due to bad sizing than anything else. It was a 56cm frame, and a little to big for me, while the Specialized is a "compact" frame in the medium size, which is supposedly the equivalent of a 54cm. That's not to say that I don't also love my recumbent (a Wicks Trimuter tadpole trike, and before that, a Linear Mach III, which I gave to my cousin since I stopped riding it once I got the trike). I do love it. But I have different goals for the two HPVs. A few years ago, I gave up cycling because of pain, from pretty much all over--back, neck, shoulders, arms, hands, butt, 'nads, you name it, it hurt. Then a few months later I got the bug again and decided to "do it right" and get properly sized for a bike. Then I heard about recumbents and figured I'd try something completely different instead. After trying a few bikes at Larry Black's annual Bent Event in Mt. Airy, MD, I fell in love with the Linear Mach III CLWB. When I got it home, I took it out on my usual bike commuting route, 10 miles of rolling hills in both directions. I was able to do it at pretty much the same average speed, maybe one MPH less. I quickly got to the same average. Then I tried a local triker's Greenspeed GTR, fell in love with that ("gotta get me one of those!" was my reaction after about five seconds on the thing), and got a Wicks Trimuter clone of the GTS. Switching from the ~30 pound Mach III to the 50+ lb Trimuter (nominally 42 lbs stock, but I carry a bit too much stuff in the panniers, just because I can :-), I started out at the same average speed instantly, and even gained one MPH eventually. The trike is wonderful for "just riding" (don't think about tipping over into traffic, ignoring most minor road hazards, etc.). It's wonderful for pulling G's in fast turns. It's amazing if there's a long, steep downhill where I can reach a very stable 40+ mph with the SRAM 3x7 hub in overdrive. It's great for towing a trailer or carrying loads. But the darned thing is bulky and heavy. When I get it to work I have to do a hysterical ballet of sorts to open both doors just to get the thing through the portal. So I wanted to get a more petite, lighter HPV (couldn't get much heavier than the Trimuter+panniers_full_of_stuff if I tried) that I could go faster with, and move around more easily, that didn't take up so much floor space. In looking around at what's available, I figured I'd be happy only with something like a Windcheetah, Trice Micro (though I might not fit into one :-), a Catrike Speed, or on the bike front, a Reynolds T-Bone (gotta luv that USS!) or a Bacchetta Corsa (maybe a Giro) or a Volae Club (maybe a Tour). But the price tags were a bit on the high side, even for the lower end big+small wheel variants of the bikes. So I figured I'd go with my original plan of a few years ago and try an upright road bike that really fit me well. Well, the Sequoia Sport fit the bill. It's not a weight weenie kind of bike (I think it was like 25 or 26 pounds with all the gizmos). It fits me very well. The saddle pretty much works. I feel no butt pain (at least no different than recumbent butt), though I occasionally get a "nutcracker" kind of feeling that I hope to adjust away with some saddle realignment (yeah right! Dream on, I can hear everyone saying). And my hands do get numb if I keep them in the same position for a few miles, which is OK for my intended use of this bike, mainly for occasional short rides during the work day, or when I want to ride home on a day I drove into work, or where I rode the trike into work, but want to get home faster for some reason (like today where thunderstorms were threatening and I left work later than I should have). Yep, to get home faster. Short of having an all downhill route where the recumbent's aerodynamics easily win out over its weight and other inefficiency disadvantages, the upright road bike is significantly faster for me. I've been recumbent-only for years now, yet when I took my first rides on the upright, I was instantly at least 2 MPH faster over the same routes of rolling hills, no special training of "upright muscles" needed. Yes, my computers were calibrated right. I really did fly up hills vs. the trike. Some hills I'd have to work at to get up at reasonable speed on the trike I could almost coast up with the bike, and at higher speeds. Today I had special motivation with the thunder clouds blowing in and did a personal best on my commute route home, reaching 19.3 MPH average on the bike based on real clock time (I must have moved my wheel magnet when pumping the tires 'cuz the computer wasn't working properly tonight), whereas when I rode to work on the trike this morning, I eeked out a 15.1 MPH ride on the slightly easier route (about a mile longer, but fewer big hills) coming into work, based on auto-start ride time. Granted, I was really, really motivated to get home without being rained on--the last time I rode home in the rain on the Mach III, I was so "traumatized" that I didn't ride it for several months afterward. So what does all this rambling on mean? For me, and likely other folks, a relatively inexpensive, but properly fitting upright road bike is a good complement to a good recumbent that cost a heck of a lot more (about 3x in my case), weighs a lot more (2x in my case), with a less efficient chain line, but better aerodynamics and overall greater comfort. I've decided to platoon these two HPVs of mine. Ride one into work, ride the other one home. I think maintaining "recumbent muscles" along with "upright muscles" is working out well for me, improving my pedaling technique on both, and motivating me to ride more. Phew, that was a long post! -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies. |
#20
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recumbent frustration
OK, you got me...;-)
"Victor Kan" wrote in message . com... Victor Kan wrote: Anyway, here's a long reply that at least tangentially has something to do with the original post :-). Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, I was making fun of my own post being only tangetially related to the original post, not what others have written, all of which pretty much has been directly related to the original post. -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies. |
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