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#21
July 10th 03, 11:58 AM
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recumbent frustration
OK, you got me...;-)
"Victor Kan" wrote in message . com... Victor Kan wrote: Anyway, here's a long reply that at least tangentially has something to do with the original post :-). Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, I was making fun of my own post being only tangetially related to the original post, not what others have written, all of which pretty much has been directly related to the original post. -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies. 
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#23
July 10th 03, 12:55 PM
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recumbent frustration
I agree with the masses--hang in there. You did put in plenty of
miles, but without proper recovery it seems. You will build leg strenght and stamina. I bought my Phantom II last december. When I first started out, I was only marginally faster than I was on my Tailwind, about 15 MPH. I usually average over 17 MPH now, and I can keep up with some of my roadie friends. The racers still drop me, but they would do so if I were on Lance's bike. It's still the engine. Watvh for little things like wheel true as well. The front wheel on a SWB can take a beating. If you are interested, my review of the Phantom II appeares in the latest issue of Recumbent Cyclist News. Bob (johlde) wrote in message . com... I recently purchased my first recumbent - a Lightning Phantom - after riding a Bianchi upright for several years. I bought it for comfort and speed. I took this recumbent on a 1600 mile tour of the Mississippi River from New Orleans to St. Paul. It was a great ride, but it was frustrating in the sense that I could not keep up with my friend who owns a Bianchi upright. The first 2 days were fine, but by about the third day, my knees were killing me. I think I had my seat to far forward so I moved the seat back. That fixed that problem, but then I found that my legs tired much quicker on the recumbent than my friends on the upright. I knew my friend would be faster on the hills, but towards the end of the ride which was fairly flat, I could only maintain average speeds of around 15mph while my friend was maintaining averages of 17-19. When we both had uprights, we easily maintained averages of 18-19 and if we drafted off one another, we could maintain 20-21 averages. After this experience, I feel like going back to an upright. Is what I experienced typical of first-time recumbent experiences? Will I become as fast on a recumbent as an upright. I'm thinking of trading in the Phantom for a Strada and doing one more ride with my upright friend, and if I can't keep up on the Strada, I think I'll probably return to an upright. Recumbents seem less efficient to me with longer chain and heavier frames. When I was able to keep up with my upright friend, I had to work much harder and could only maintain it for 5-7 miles.
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#24
July 10th 03, 01:04 PM
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recumbent frustration
It sounds like upright riders with lots of miles have a more difficult
time transitioning to a recumbent than the more casual riders. I only rode bicycles occasionally before getting my first bent. I've believe I am definately more efficient on my recumbent on flat to rolling terrain. I am 20+ pounds overweight and nearly all my rides this year are the 8.5 mile ride through the city to work and back. Yet I have completed two centuries this year (6 hr on bike 7 hr total). I wasn't fast but I wasn't that slow either. On the last ride I was really hurting after pushing myself too much on the first 80 miles. But the last 20 was very flat with a strong head wind, I was riding with a cyclist that was atleast 40 lbs lighter than me and had many more miles in. While I was able to easily maintain 18mph he struggled the whole way due to the wind. This was the strongest evidence I have seen of the advantage of recumbent aerodynamics (other than the fact I always pull away quickly on any kind of hill). It appears that training on an upright doesn't directly translate into speed on a bent. I imagine the difference is even greater if you are a masher vs. a spinner on the upright. I hope everyone is comfortable and fast on whatever bike they ride. I am. Craig Optima Baron "Eugene Cottrell" wrote in message ... Your experience is similar to mine and all but one of the people in my area, that I know. I have a Strada and can not ride with the guys I always rode with on my upright. After several thousand miles, I've decided to sell the Strada and try to get back to the DF, if medical conditions permit. If not, I'd rather not ride than be frustrated on a recumbent. I'm a 5-10,000 mile a year rider and the recumbent just doesn't do it for me on the hilly terrain I ride in. Even on the flats I've tried, it just ain't fun. I know lots of folks on this group love their bents, but they apparently aren't for most people, that's why you rarely see them. Good luck in your attempt to enjoy the bent, but like I said they're not for everyone. Gene "johlde" wrote in message om... I recently purchased my first recumbent - a Lightning Phantom - after riding a Bianchi upright for several years. I bought it for comfort and speed. I took this recumbent on a 1600 mile tour of the Mississippi River from New Orleans to St. Paul. It was a great ride, but it was frustrating in the sense that I could not keep up with my friend who owns a Bianchi upright. The first 2 days were fine, but by about the third day, my knees were killing me. I think I had my seat to far forward so I moved the seat back. That fixed that problem, but then I found that my legs tired much quicker on the recumbent than my friends on the upright. I knew my friend would be faster on the hills, but towards the end of the ride which was fairly flat, I could only maintain average speeds of around 15mph while my friend was maintaining averages of 17-19. When we both had uprights, we easily maintained averages of 18-19 and if we drafted off one another, we could maintain 20-21 averages. After this experience, I feel like going back to an upright. Is what I experienced typical of first-time recumbent experiences? Will I become as fast on a recumbent as an upright. I'm thinking of trading in the Phantom for a Strada and doing one more ride with my upright friend, and if I can't keep up on the Strada, I think I'll probably return to an upright. Recumbents seem less efficient to me with longer chain and heavier frames. When I was able to keep up with my upright friend, I had to work much harder and could only maintain it for 5-7 miles.
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#25
July 10th 03, 01:04 PM
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recumbent frustration
It sounds like upright riders with lots of miles have a more difficult
time transitioning to a recumbent than the more casual riders. I only rode bicycles occasionally before getting my first bent. I've believe I am definately more efficient on my recumbent on flat to rolling terrain. I am 20+ pounds overweight and nearly all my rides this year are the 8.5 mile ride through the city to work and back. Yet I have completed two centuries this year (6 hr on bike 7 hr total). I wasn't fast but I wasn't that slow either. On the last ride I was really hurting after pushing myself too much on the first 80 miles. But the last 20 was very flat with a strong head wind, I was riding with a cyclist that was atleast 40 lbs lighter than me and had many more miles in. While I was able to easily maintain 18mph he struggled the whole way due to the wind. This was the strongest evidence I have seen of the advantage of recumbent aerodynamics (other than the fact I always pull away quickly on any kind of hill). It appears that training on an upright doesn't directly translate into speed on a bent. I imagine the difference is even greater if you are a masher vs. a spinner on the upright. I hope everyone is comfortable and fast on whatever bike they ride. I am. Craig Optima Baron "Eugene Cottrell" wrote in message ... Your experience is similar to mine and all but one of the people in my area, that I know. I have a Strada and can not ride with the guys I always rode with on my upright. After several thousand miles, I've decided to sell the Strada and try to get back to the DF, if medical conditions permit. If not, I'd rather not ride than be frustrated on a recumbent. I'm a 5-10,000 mile a year rider and the recumbent just doesn't do it for me on the hilly terrain I ride in. Even on the flats I've tried, it just ain't fun. I know lots of folks on this group love their bents, but they apparently aren't for most people, that's why you rarely see them. Good luck in your attempt to enjoy the bent, but like I said they're not for everyone. Gene "johlde" wrote in message om... I recently purchased my first recumbent - a Lightning Phantom - after riding a Bianchi upright for several years. I bought it for comfort and speed. I took this recumbent on a 1600 mile tour of the Mississippi River from New Orleans to St. Paul. It was a great ride, but it was frustrating in the sense that I could not keep up with my friend who owns a Bianchi upright. The first 2 days were fine, but by about the third day, my knees were killing me. I think I had my seat to far forward so I moved the seat back. That fixed that problem, but then I found that my legs tired much quicker on the recumbent than my friends on the upright. I knew my friend would be faster on the hills, but towards the end of the ride which was fairly flat, I could only maintain average speeds of around 15mph while my friend was maintaining averages of 17-19. When we both had uprights, we easily maintained averages of 18-19 and if we drafted off one another, we could maintain 20-21 averages. After this experience, I feel like going back to an upright. Is what I experienced typical of first-time recumbent experiences? Will I become as fast on a recumbent as an upright. I'm thinking of trading in the Phantom for a Strada and doing one more ride with my upright friend, and if I can't keep up on the Strada, I think I'll probably return to an upright. Recumbents seem less efficient to me with longer chain and heavier frames. When I was able to keep up with my upright friend, I had to work much harder and could only maintain it for 5-7 miles.
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#26
July 10th 03, 01:41 PM
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recumbent frustration
baronn1 wrote:
I stand corrected, I should have used the term "relatively" The Bianchi is relatively expensive compared to the gamut of df bikes, He didn't specify what model of Bianchi. Like the gamut of DF brands, they make a wide price range of bikes. but the Phantom is relatively inexpensive for a recumbent. However, I don't think your tangent actually is a tangent at all. How are trikes, As I wrote, I started out with a Mach III CLWB and gave that as the example of my first-time recumbent experience. your experience with fit related to various df bikes, Well, the original poster said he bought a recumbent for comfort and speed. Fit related to various DF bikes has everything to do with comfort, and to some extent speed. So maybe he doesn't have to give up the DF for comfort--maybe he could get a DF bike with a more comfy geometry, saddle, etc. and advocating owning both styles of bike related to the question posted, which was "Can I expect similar speeds on my bent as compared to my df?"? Well, he said he was probably going to go back to uprights if recumbents don't let him keep up with his upright friends. I'm advocating that even if it turns out he can't keep up with his upright friends (which I can certainly believe), he shouldn't give up on recumbents. He should keep the 'bent as a complement to his DF, switching on and off, it could help his technique and performance on both. When he wants to keep up with this buddies, he can ride the DF. When he wants to be more comfy on a longer ride, the bent might be just the thing. If he hasn't developed "recumbent muscles" in 1600 miles, maybe he should try a different recumbent design. Rather than a high BB SWB, maybe he would be better off with a low BB LWB, like a Gold Rush. I gave my opinions on this question, while you went on a multi topic ramble, never answering the question posted. I think I did answer the questions asked, albeit in a rambling way. Is what I experienced typical of first-time recumbent experiences? My experience wasn't as bad as the original poster's--my Mach III was about the same for me as my Trek DF, maybe just 1MPH slower, but I quickly came up to speed and resolved my comfort issues. Will I become as fast on a recumbent as an upright. Maybe, maybe not. So far, for the original poster, not. One should not expect similar speeds on a bent as compared to a DF. The bent will be faster on certain terrain and slower on others. Anyone claiming total superiority of one over the other would be selling snake oil (not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing that). Given how different the machines' configurations and designs are between recumbents and DFs, I think it's unrealistic to expect equivalent performance in all scenarios, and certainly unrealistic to expect the recumbent to be equivalent or superior in all relevant respects (though certain characteristics may disqualify one design or the other from consideration). The 2-4 MPH difference the original poster found between himself and his friend (and by proxy, himself when he was on the upright and keeping pace with his friend) exactly matches my typical experience when I switch between my recumbent (albeit a tadpole trike rather than a SWB bike) and my DF, even though I have "recumbent muscles" and only started riding a DF again a few weeks and about 80 miles ago. It might balance out overall in favor of the recumbent though, as it likely does for most recumbent owners coming from the DF world. For me, one of each is working out well, though if I get a Reynolds T-Bone 700/20, I might give up the DF world again. -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies.
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#27
July 10th 03, 01:41 PM
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recumbent frustration
baronn1 wrote:
I stand corrected, I should have used the term "relatively" The Bianchi is relatively expensive compared to the gamut of df bikes, He didn't specify what model of Bianchi. Like the gamut of DF brands, they make a wide price range of bikes. but the Phantom is relatively inexpensive for a recumbent. However, I don't think your tangent actually is a tangent at all. How are trikes, As I wrote, I started out with a Mach III CLWB and gave that as the example of my first-time recumbent experience. your experience with fit related to various df bikes, Well, the original poster said he bought a recumbent for comfort and speed. Fit related to various DF bikes has everything to do with comfort, and to some extent speed. So maybe he doesn't have to give up the DF for comfort--maybe he could get a DF bike with a more comfy geometry, saddle, etc. and advocating owning both styles of bike related to the question posted, which was "Can I expect similar speeds on my bent as compared to my df?"? Well, he said he was probably going to go back to uprights if recumbents don't let him keep up with his upright friends. I'm advocating that even if it turns out he can't keep up with his upright friends (which I can certainly believe), he shouldn't give up on recumbents. He should keep the 'bent as a complement to his DF, switching on and off, it could help his technique and performance on both. When he wants to keep up with this buddies, he can ride the DF. When he wants to be more comfy on a longer ride, the bent might be just the thing. If he hasn't developed "recumbent muscles" in 1600 miles, maybe he should try a different recumbent design. Rather than a high BB SWB, maybe he would be better off with a low BB LWB, like a Gold Rush. I gave my opinions on this question, while you went on a multi topic ramble, never answering the question posted. I think I did answer the questions asked, albeit in a rambling way. Is what I experienced typical of first-time recumbent experiences? My experience wasn't as bad as the original poster's--my Mach III was about the same for me as my Trek DF, maybe just 1MPH slower, but I quickly came up to speed and resolved my comfort issues. Will I become as fast on a recumbent as an upright. Maybe, maybe not. So far, for the original poster, not. One should not expect similar speeds on a bent as compared to a DF. The bent will be faster on certain terrain and slower on others. Anyone claiming total superiority of one over the other would be selling snake oil (not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing that). Given how different the machines' configurations and designs are between recumbents and DFs, I think it's unrealistic to expect equivalent performance in all scenarios, and certainly unrealistic to expect the recumbent to be equivalent or superior in all relevant respects (though certain characteristics may disqualify one design or the other from consideration). The 2-4 MPH difference the original poster found between himself and his friend (and by proxy, himself when he was on the upright and keeping pace with his friend) exactly matches my typical experience when I switch between my recumbent (albeit a tadpole trike rather than a SWB bike) and my DF, even though I have "recumbent muscles" and only started riding a DF again a few weeks and about 80 miles ago. It might balance out overall in favor of the recumbent though, as it likely does for most recumbent owners coming from the DF world. For me, one of each is working out well, though if I get a Reynolds T-Bone 700/20, I might give up the DF world again. -- I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for legitimate replies.
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#28
July 10th 03, 02:48 PM
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recumbent frustration
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#29
July 10th 03, 02:48 PM
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recumbent frustration
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#30
July 10th 03, 04:59 PM
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recumbent frustration
I have to agree ans say "I feel your pain!!"
Reading about bents, on line, it DOES sound like the speed advantage (at least on the flat) is automatic. I, for one, and many others in this group, didn't find thisto be so. However, I have to say, that the comfort and novelty more than made up the difference. Today, after about two years bent, I can say that I'm a couple of miles per hour faster on my tour easy clone. My low racer clone is no faster than the ERC, which puzzles me. Apparently each type of bicycle/bent carries it's own group of physical needs. Some have the build, or musculature,to get immediate speed benefits. Others, like me, don't. -- Miles of Smiles, Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone www.gate.net/~teblum
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