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#41
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-02-28 12:39, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 11:54:57 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 10:44, jbeattie wrote: [...] ... Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Society is now over-dosing on furry Xanax. Love your dog, but make it one dog -- or maybe two tiny dogs -- split the dose. The companion or comfort animal is overblown these days but certified therapy dogs are very different. Just as guide dogs for blind people they are like soldiers. At home they are normal dogs, barking, romping around, chasing each other and all that. The minute they have their jackets on their behavior changes from childish to professional. They also have no problem when handlers get switched if this happens "on duty". Right, according to the non-governing body of unlicensed therapy dogs, the animal must pass extensive testing as set forth in this two-page brochu http://www.tdi-dog.org/images/TestingBrochure.pdf E.g.: TEST 7: VISITING WITH A PATIENT The dog should show willingness to visit a person and demonstrate that it can be made readily accessible for petting (i.e. small dogs will be placed on a person’s lap or held; medium dogs will sit on a chair or stand close to the patient to be easily reached, and larger dogs will be standing). Goddamn, that's grueling. Ours had to pass all that and then some. It's even tougher. A dog must also not defend itself like its instincts would tell it. An example (of many): People with Alzheimer's can burst into violence out of the blue. A guy zipped out his pant belt in a split second, must have already been open. Then he started whipping our Black Lab who at 50lbs is rather tiny. She immediately did the right thing, backing way off. No counter-attack of any kind. ... The dog has to be pet-able, just like a soldier. The dog has to exhibit both behaviors simultaneously, that of a soldier and that of a lovable pet. Not many can do that. ... This is SO much like guide dogs that are selected by breed, specially raised and trained for months if not years to lead blind people across busy intersections. I know, we sometimes helped with the raisers of guide dogs. With this organization: https://www.guidedogs.com/ Yes, breed can play a role here. There are certain breeds such as Labradors and other Retrievers who are particularly suited to this kind of job. Shepherds can be, too. The effect can often already be felt with kids. One example is when we went to the local library for "kids read to dogs" events. While dogs listen attentively they do not criticize and do not even raise an eyebrow if a word was mispronounced. The result is that many kids who otherwise stammer and read haltingly are reading quite fluently soon. It can even be seen with toddlers. Li'l Joey screems to the high heavens in his stroller, louder than a police siren. Inconsolable, totally. Me with the dogs comes along, mom takes one of Joey's hands and puts it on the shoulders of a dog - crying stops. Here is an interesting summary of the state of the literature on animal therapy: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...py-really-work Yeah, they can put this down all day long. Only if you actively and most of all frequently go to people in need with your dog do you really know. And that's what we do, that is part of the reason why I do not work full time. I am also a lay caregiver to people in grief and in other tough situations. That volunteer work is sans dog, mostly. There you learn to read people's moods and body language, something that almost instantly tells you the reaction to dog visits. It also quickly lets you discern whether a person would not appreciate an approaching dog. Not surpringly that's a low single-digit percentage in care facilities. Mostly 0%, there is only one person who doesn't like dogs in an Alzheimer's place with currently about 60 residents. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-02-28 12:56, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Play your cards right, and you can make a pretty penny. http://gorgenewscenter.com/2018/02/2...-service-dogs/ How do people say with a straight face that a dog can perform "a chest compression maneuver." Mo http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ned_woman.html Well, MY dog can give injections and perform a routine prostate exam with its nose. Even if you won't believe it, trained dogs can predict an oncoming epileptic seizure. Before something really bad happens, not when it's too late. Now who else can do that? Can you? ... It is also proficient with Turbo Tax. Nah, the tax reform through them a curve. I've had two plane flights sitting next to someone with a supposed therapy dog. I saw no therapies administered. Not so much as a back rub. The dog could have relieved the pilots, flown the aircraft and defended against the enemy at the same time: http://art.cafimg.com/images/Categor...47061gpadd.jpg I had that picture in max size on the driver side door of my old Citroen. The reaction inside passing cars with kids in the back was priceless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#43
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-28 12:56, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Play your cards right, and you can make a pretty penny. http://gorgenewscenter.com/2018/02/2...-service-dogs/ How do people say with a straight face that a dog can perform "a chest compression maneuver." Mo http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ned_woman.html Well, MY dog can give injections and perform a routine prostate exam with its nose. Even if you won't believe it, trained dogs can predict an oncoming epileptic seizure. Before something really bad happens, not when it's too late. Now who else can do that? Can you? ... It is also proficient with Turbo Tax. Nah, the tax reform through them a curve. I've had two plane flights sitting next to someone with a supposed therapy dog. I saw no therapies administered. Not so much as a back rub. The dog could have relieved the pilots, flown the aircraft and defended against the enemy at the same time: http://art.cafimg.com/images/Categor...47061gpadd.jpg I had that picture in max size on the driver side door of my old Citroen. The reaction inside passing cars with kids in the back was priceless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#44
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-02-28 13:57, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 12:56, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Play your cards right, and you can make a pretty penny. http://gorgenewscenter.com/2018/02/2...-service-dogs/ How do people say with a straight face that a dog can perform "a chest compression maneuver." Mo http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ned_woman.html Well, MY dog can give injections and perform a routine prostate exam with its nose. Even if you won't believe it, trained dogs can predict an oncoming epileptic seizure. Before something really bad happens, not when it's too late. Now who else can do that? Can you? ... It is also proficient with Turbo Tax. Nah, the tax reform through them a curve. I've had two plane flights sitting next to someone with a supposed therapy dog. I saw no therapies administered. Not so much as a back rub. The dog could have relieved the pilots, flown the aircraft and defended against the enemy at the same time: http://art.cafimg.com/images/Categor...47061gpadd.jpg I had that picture in max size on the driver side door of my old Citroen. The reaction inside passing cars with kids in the back was priceless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ This post came over sans response :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#45
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2/28/2018 10:41 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-27 18:20, John B. wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:22:08 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 07:55, sms wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:11 AM, Ned Mantei wrote: On 26-02-18 21:34, Joerg wrote: My experience is the opposite. Horses leave their poop all over but that ain't so bad. I agree. Horse droppings dry quickly, leaving only something like hay fragments on the ground. I saw no horses all day on Saturday, but lots of nice moist horse droppings. Maybe it's the fog that comes in at the coast that keeps things messy. In any case, public parks should be for self-powered activities. Equestrians can ride on private land and mess that up as much as they want. Horses with riders on them were here well before any vehicles, back in the days when only Native Americans roamed the West. We shall not take their rights away just because it is now perceived as inconvenient. In fact, under Federal law, horses and burros have a right to use public lands. As they should. In practice that is sometimes curtailed although Parks can and do ban certain uses. Some state parks don't allow horses at all. |
#46
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On 2018-02-28 16:34, sms wrote:
On 2/28/2018 10:41 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:20, John B. wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:22:08 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 07:55, sms wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:11 AM, Ned Mantei wrote: On 26-02-18 21:34, Joerg wrote: My experience is the opposite. Horses leave their poop all over but that ain't so bad. I agree. Horse droppings dry quickly, leaving only something like hay fragments on the ground. I saw no horses all day on Saturday, but lots of nice moist horse droppings. Maybe it's the fog that comes in at the coast that keeps things messy. In any case, public parks should be for self-powered activities. Equestrians can ride on private land and mess that up as much as they want. Horses with riders on them were here well before any vehicles, back in the days when only Native Americans roamed the West. We shall not take their rights away just because it is now perceived as inconvenient. In fact, under Federal law, horses and burros have a right to use public lands. As they should. In practice that is sometimes curtailed although Parks can and do ban certain uses. Some state parks don't allow horses at all. Government at its finest. They always try to ban this or that and lord it over the people. Luckily Sacramento doesn't ban horses. I like them, sometimes even wait when I see some approaching in the distance from a side trail. Occasionally it's the opposite here. One nice trail is blocked for MTB riders which is not nice because equestrian use during the week is almost zero. Not many hikers either because it's too long for most people. On the El Dorado Trail which is the local MTB thoroughfare to get to Placerville, El Dorado Hills or Folsom horse riders and MTB riders get along fine. With the exception of a few inconsiderate MTB riders who blow past a horse at close distance without warning. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#47
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 2:38:07 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-28 13:57, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-28 12:56, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Play your cards right, and you can make a pretty penny. http://gorgenewscenter.com/2018/02/2...-service-dogs/ How do people say with a straight face that a dog can perform "a chest compression maneuver." Mo http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...ned_woman.html Well, MY dog can give injections and perform a routine prostate exam with its nose. Even if you won't believe it, trained dogs can predict an oncoming epileptic seizure. Before something really bad happens, not when it's too late. Now who else can do that? Can you? ... It is also proficient with Turbo Tax. Nah, the tax reform through them a curve. I've had two plane flights sitting next to someone with a supposed therapy dog. I saw no therapies administered. Not so much as a back rub. The dog could have relieved the pilots, flown the aircraft and defended against the enemy at the same time: http://art.cafimg.com/images/Categor...47061gpadd.jpg I had that picture in max size on the driver side door of my old Citroen. The reaction inside passing cars with kids in the back was priceless. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ This post came over sans response :-) Appropriately so, because now we're meandering into other hypothetical situations involving seizure alert dogs (SADs). The science there is equivocal at best. The highest success rates have been with puppies who had no training at all, and those were based on anecdotal reports. As for adults and trained dogs, its looking like pocket-lining voodoo: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/bo...re-alert-dogs/ I did a medical journal article search that produced a number of articles concluding that there was no reliable evidence that dogs can be trained to predict seizures. Dogs CAN be trained to do a lot of useful things. That's fine, but don't make dogs more magical than they are as a rationale for owning two as pets. I'm not seeing a lot of police dogs, drug sniffing dogs, sheep herding dogs or other working dogs on the MUPs. Just herds of pet dogs. -- Jay Beattie. |
#48
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:41:14 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:20, John B. wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:22:08 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 07:55, sms wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:11 AM, Ned Mantei wrote: On 26-02-18 21:34, Joerg wrote: My experience is the opposite. Horses leave their poop all over but that ain't so bad. I agree. Horse droppings dry quickly, leaving only something like hay fragments on the ground. I saw no horses all day on Saturday, but lots of nice moist horse droppings. Maybe it's the fog that comes in at the coast that keeps things messy. In any case, public parks should be for self-powered activities. Equestrians can ride on private land and mess that up as much as they want. Horses with riders on them were here well before any vehicles, back in the days when only Native Americans roamed the West. We shall not take their rights away just because it is now perceived as inconvenient. In fact, under Federal law, horses and burros have a right to use public lands. As they should. In practice that is sometimes curtailed although I don't know if it would hold in court. Though it often makes sense. For example, the western section of the singletrack from Lotus to Folsom has a sign "No horses" and the switchbacks could be dangerous for horse and rider. Even mountain bikers have gone over a cliff there. I was referring to the so wild horses that are managed by the Bureau of Land Management on 26.9 million acres of public lands across 10 western states. -- Cheers, John B. |
#49
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:44:31 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote: On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far, far too many dogs in the world. "A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart Brand Within the last two days: A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued allowing her dogs to run. B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM. C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully it will calm down as it matures. I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction. Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How do you suppose that should be done without a dog? I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting -- you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for me. As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model with a vodka tonic. "The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify the study's effects." Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013) 47 EJPSYR 6 762-773 If you really care about the environment, you do not own two dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs. Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with Alzheimer's. I have, for decades. I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog. As an ambulance driver in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term care settings since I was a kid. And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs? There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients from dog-therapy, and other therapies are equally effective -- like people and robots, even fish. Everybody claims their dog is a therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!" Right. A Friend, who had three very lively kids, once commented that "raising kids is just like raising hunting dogs. Except I believe that the dogs learn a bit quicker." :-) As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Society is now over-dosing on furry Xanax. Love your dog, but make it one dog -- or maybe two tiny dogs -- split the dose. -- Jay Beattie. -- Cheers, John B. |
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The lone 26er in a forest full of 29ers and 27.5ers
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 14:10:39 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/28/2018 1:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/28/2018 1:44 PM, jbeattie wrote: As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry Xanax. Or some sort of furry beast that needs Xanax. See http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html I know a guy who began dating a rather quirky woman. The woman sort of gradually moved into his house, something he should not have let happen. Among her many quirks, she loved dogs and felt it was her mission in life to rescue one from the local pound. She "rescued" a _large_ dog with many problems. Well: The guy was forced to build a large pen for the large dog, because it wasn't really controllable, despite being on Xanax or Prosac or some such thing. And eventually, despite the pills, the dog attacked the guys dear granddaughters. Soon after that, the dog was gone. And not much later, the woman was gone too. Oh, women then. I met an old friend, an active cyclist in her late-70s, for breakfast in January. She walked into the diner with a yapping little demon and I gave her The Stare, asking, 'A dog in a restaurant?' as the clientele and my beloved waitresses quietly tried not to overreact. She very loudly exclaimed that she had paid a doctor $100 for a certificate so she can go just anywhere with it. Needless to say I'll miss her company. Strange, but when I was growing up in rural New England there were all kinds of dogs. There were hunting dogs in a number of flavors, guard dogs, barn dogs, house dogs, and just plain dogs. But I never heard of a therapy dog. However I do remember some women used to have what were called "lap dogs". Small fluffy dogs that they carried around like a new born babe, which most people viewed as a baby substitute as in "well, she couldn't have any kids so she bought a dog". -- Cheers, John B. |
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