New 36" tire and Two 36" Rims Announced By UDC

Lets be patient. New ground is being broken all the time and who would
have thought the 36" unicycles would have come so far in a few years.
Have you seen a production 36 MTB yet?
It is a bloody long way down if you fall off though but I am prepared.


--
onebyone

Bill Blogs is an alien!
www.municycle.com.au
------------------------------------------------------------------------
onebyone's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10014
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

MuniAddict wrote:
I'm wondering about the tread life on that new, lighter tire compared to
the beefier TA tire.


I'm looking for a new tire (and maybe even rim) for the Uninam tour.
I'd be more than happy to give it a 500km road test if Roger were
willing to ship one to me at a cut rate


--
maestro8

Those are my principles. If you don't like those, I have others. --
Groucho Marx

The only way to comprehend what mathematicians mean by Infinity is to
contemplate the extent of human stupidity. -- François-Marie Arouet de
Voltaire
------------------------------------------------------------------------
maestro8's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7871
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

And incidentally, the old steel rims that were stock on the Nimbus 36"
are gone forever. It's all airfoil all the time now.


--
BoojiBoy

----------------------------------
www.purevolume.com/skawabunga
gallery.unicyclist.com/epluribusfunk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BoojiBoy's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3923
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

BoojiBoy wrote:
And incidentally, the old steel rims that were stock on the Nimbus 36"
are gone forever. It's all airfoil all the time now.

Good riddance.


--
Brian O.

*'ProjectUNI' (http://www.projectuni.com) - *The First Serious Unicycle
Computer Game* - -ProjectUNI update available 'here!'
(http://projectuni.com/#lightbox3)-* - Join the 'discussion.'
(http://www.projectuni.com/forum)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian O.'s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/10744
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

GizmoDuck wrote:
42" is going to get pretty heavy and unwieldy.



didn't they say that about 36" wheels?


--
Brian MacKenzie

'CanadianUnicycling.com' (http://www.canadianunicycling.com)

DVDs Now Available: 'Inner Balance' (http://tinyurl.com/2pd7sm) ,
'Training Wheel Not Required' (http://tinyurl.com/2b8cq6)
Coming Soon: '90 min documentary: Ride The Lobster'
(http://tinyurl.com/2wfltu)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian MacKenzie's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7650
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

lpounds wrote:
So very true. I like my 36er but I can't see what wouldn't be better
about a bigger wheel, as long as it is a pneumatic tire. Why is 42"
the next logical size btw?

Yes, it needs to be pneumatic (I have a 45" wheel but with a hard rubber
tire it's no fun for long rides)! Why 42"? Probably because I was
campaigning for this size last year when Coker was asking us for
suggestions for their new models. 42" adds another 6" to the current
size, which would make it bigger/faster while still keeping it within a
size that most people could fit on. As you go bigger (arguably
including 36") you lose flexibility in the seat post area. There's
being able to reach the pedals, but at the same time it's important to
have some adjustability in your seat height. As long as the seat post
points at the tire this will remain a conflict.

Of course you could avoid that problem to some extent by mounting a
seat on a horizontal bar. Then longer legs would have the seat farther
back. But at the same time you'd have a pair of handlebars mounted to
the other end of that bar, and they would be more forward for the
taller person. So all you might need is a way to adjust seat angle and
that might work! This would allow for bigger wheels while still
allowing lots of seat adjustability.


GizmoDuck wrote:
It's {36"}a much more versatile wheel size for most terrain.

I agree, though nobody probably would have believed 36" would be so good
on dirt until people started doing it, so who knows?


GizmoDuck wrote:
42" is going to get pretty heavy and unwieldy. You would need to make a
very good rim and tyre for it to be worthwhile.

This is the main problem, along with an even smaller market for a 42"
wheel. My suggestion to Coker was to focus it more toward
road/performance, rather than general use and durability. The 36"
wheels are very fat, which makes them visually appealing for the vast
majority of customers, who use them for novelty cycles. This may not
have been intentional at first, as I believe the original 36" Coker
tires/wheels were intended for the Coker Monster bike, which was a
cruiser/style bike. But the fat tire is great for us unicyclists in
terms of comfort as well as ability to ride offroad.

But with a large volume tire you have to allow for lots of weight. All
of todays 36" wheels are heavy. Some of this is unavoidable, due to the
larger amounts of materials required for such a large wheel. And some
is intentional. I think the Coker innertubes are as thick as they are
because they want them to last as long as possible. Remember, the vast
majority of buyers are (or at least were) using these wheels for
novelty cycles. That means they get very low mileage and long-term wear
is important while performance is almost irrelevant.

A 42" (or other larger size) wheel should be made for road riders. In
other words it would be geared toward performance, with a focus on
cutting weight and increasing speed. Still you would have to
compromise. The slicker and lighter you make it, the more prone to
breakage it would be.

Rims and tires would probably be more expensive than today's 36" parts,
because again the market would be smaller. Smaller on several counts:
1) Because less people can fit on it
2) Because it's less versatile (not as good for novelty uses, like
parades)
3) Because an unknown percentage of the potential market for this wheel
already bought a 36" wheel and aren't willing to buy another one until
that one dies

Also the larger you go, the tighter the tolerances get for making a
good fit and seal and keeping a tire on against the pressure of the air
in it. This probably gets more difficult both with larger sizes, and
possibly also when you make it skinnier. Then again, going skinnier
might make that part easier...

I would expect a "performance" 42" wheel to weigh nearly as much as
today's 36" wheels. Some of the weight you'd save in making it skinnier
and lower-profile would be lost in the larger size. Weight savings
probably wouldn't be very much, but at least it would be rotating mass,
so performance-wise, athletes like Ken would probably be able to feel
the difference and benefit from it.

I would love to have a 50" air tire unicycle. That's still big enough
for me to reach without getting complicated under the seat, and yet so
big it would be really visually interesting and fun to ride (on the
flat at least)!


--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

Man with broken collar bone say: "Have you checked your shoelaces
lately?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Brian MacKenzie wrote:
didn't they say that about 36" wheels?



Yep, but like I said, if they made a very strong and very light wheel,
it might be OK. But it would really have to be lighter and stronger
than the current 36" wheels IMHO to make it worthwhile. And do that
without widening the hub so much you have to ride bow-legged.


--
GizmoDuck

The Uninam Tour 2008.....Hanoi to Saigon!!! www.uninam.net

The Monguni 2009....Unicycle Tour of Mongolia

Email me for details.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GizmoDuck's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/794
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

johnfoss wrote:
Yes, it needs to be pneumatic (I have a 45" wheel but with a hard rubber
tire it's no fun for long rides)




I'm curious what the root causes of the limitations of your hard rubber
tyre actually are. I can think of a few:



- Increased handling sensitivity to bumps due to lighter wheel
- Increased handling sensitivity to bumps due to hardness
- Reduced grip due to hardness and thinness of tyre
- Rider discomfort due to lack of cushioning.




It seems to me that 1 & 2 would be the primary limiters on your
cruising speed on road, say, because they would affect your balance
envelope: you can't go so close to the limit of your performance if the
wheel overreacts badly to bumps in the road.

Issue 3 is primarily going to be a problem offroad, when cornering and
when it's wet. Issue 4 is a discouragement factor for long / fast
rides rather than a more fundamental limitation - it'll still stop you
but it's due to the frailties of the human posterior as much as the
cycle

Regarding 1, the existing 36" unis are generally built for parade and
show work, right? So they're lightweight and responsive. If the solid
tyre were simply thickened / widened a bit, that'd add a bit more
rolling mass for stability and also help with points 2, 3 and 4. Maybe
a greater thickness of a softer rubber compound? For point 4, on top
of that, a combination of suspension seatpost and air seat ought to
help a lot.

I'm just wondering what an existing "super large" wheel would handle
like with some simple mods like these, which would be relatively
achievable by someone with the tools and supplies necessary. I'd be
surprised if nobody has experimented with turning a parade big wheel
into a tourer in this way, yet I've never actually seen mention of it
anywhere. Maybe nobody's tried it, or maybe it just really doesn't
work well at all?

Another question: even if a solid rubber tyre is not desirable, does
that necessarily imply that a air filled tyre is the answer? What
about a "foam rubber" filled tyre? It's been my understanding that
these have been tried and largely rejected in biking circles but maybe
the size of a big wheel could make it a more attractive option after
all. It'd lose the versatility of varying air pressures but on the
other hand you'd never get a puncture

FWIW, when I get out of grad school and get a proper job, I'd be keen
to look at purchasing a 42", so long as I could fit on it, even though
I have a 36" and 29". Big wheels are just awesome!


--
mark williamson

Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
pedals!
Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
mark williamson's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/11301
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

mark williamson wrote:
What about a "foam rubber" filled tyre? It's been my understanding that
these have been tried and largely rejected in biking circles but maybe
the size of a big wheel could make it a more attractive option after
all. It'd lose the versatility of varying air pressures but on the
other hand you'd never get a puncture


This has been used w/ some success in motorcross. I'm pretty sure all
sprint racers still use air though.

I think I read of a racer using a foam filled tire for an endurance
race (Baha?),
and if I'm remembering this correctly, it definately saved time w/
flats.
I think 3 or 4 flats in a race like Baha isn't uncommon on a bike.


--
skilewis74

Ride everywhere and never just ride anywhere. If you can ride where you
are going within a hour, do it, and if you can do a trick 50-75% of the
time do it along the way.
Bob Burnquist on how to improve significantly.
'Trials Building'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64235)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
skilewis74's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/12404
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

mark williamson wrote:

1. Increased handling sensitivity to bumps due to lighter wheel

The cycle weighs 28-30 pounds. Do you think solid rubber is lighter than
a Coker tire? We're talking Schwinn-style frame (though I drilled
it with 7/8" holes for style and to make it a little lighter). Steel,
Schwinn tubular rim (double wall). Lots of spoke material and
wheelchair rubber. I'm not sure, but I think an equivalent-sized big
wheel of this construction might weigh less than a Coker, but probably
not much.


2. Increased handling sensitivity to bumps due to hardness

Mostly not a problem. It's only a problem when you run over that little
rock that lines up perfectly with your (narrow) tire and you didn't see
it, so it bounces your bottom foot off the pedal and you crash and
subsequently get run over by your own wheel. Not that that's ever
happened to me...

The ride is *very* different from a Coker due to the skinniness and
ultra-hardness of the tire. Spins and pirouettes are my best trick in
parades. Where a Coker is best suited to going straight, one of these
wheels is great for swooping around. Unfortunately this increases
wobble when riding in a straight line though. The friction on the 36"
tires helps you track straight.


3. Reduced grip due to hardness and thinness of tyre

Also mostly not a problem under the conditions in which I ride it. Like
a skinny-tire bike, you have to be much more careful in the wet, and
you'd be stupid to take this thing offroad. Wheelchair rubber doesn't
have any tread either.

It grips just fine on pavement outdoors, but if you ride it in a gym
(or on a stage) watch out! Getting it into a spin on a dusty stage is a
balancing act the audience is never aware of! Also I've ridden it on
plenty of gravel and dirt over the years, but the lack of cushioning
makes it very hard on the wheel, not just the rider.


4. Rider discomfort due to lack of cushioning.

DING! That's the main one. Call me a wuss, but I've ridden it in a
couple of March of Dimes charity rides in the 80s (75k), and in New
York's 5-Boro Bike Tour many times (36 miles). That ride includes lots
of bad pavement, including a section of brick in Queens. Ouch!

Riding without a tire and without suspension is something you probably
have to experience to understand. It's something beyond riding a track
bike with 100+ psi in the tire. All road shock and vibration passes
right to you. You can tell the quality of the pavement you're on
without having to look at it.

A better seat or suspension would help, but it only suspends the
crotch. The wheel, which is the vast majority of the cycle's mass, is
still banging around on every bump. The spokes ring and vibrate like a
metal basket. Hitting bumps too hard can make flat spots in the rim,
and eventually led to the demise of my original wheel. I had Tom Miller
build me up a new one (on the original hub) in 1993 or so. When you
take the shock absorbing abilities out of the tire, the rest of the
cycle (and rider) take up the slack.



Regarding 1, the existing 36" unis are generally built for parade and
show work, right? So they're lightweight and responsive.

Yes to the first, no to the second. Cokers (and the other 36ers) are
neither lightweight nor responsive. I would call my big wheel much more
responsive due to the low friction. A 36" Tom Miller big wheel could
probably outmaneuver a Coker.



I'd be surprised if nobody has experimented with turning a parade big
wheel into a tourer in this way, yet I've never actually seen mention
of it anywhere. Maybe nobody's tried it, or maybe it just really
doesn't work well at all?

Wally Watts rode around the world on a hard-tire 43" wheel with a
suspension seatpost. But if he were doing that ride today I guarantee
you he would use one of the air tire 36ers that's available, for
multiple reasons (replaceable parts secondary to comfort).

Different tire materials would be fun to play with. I have a solid
foam/rubber "innertube" for a 20" wheel that I've never built into
anything. It's heavy but I'm sure it would work, though I expected it
to feel underinflated on a unicycle. It might be great for a Trials uni
though.


It's been my understanding that these have been tried and largely
rejected in biking circles but maybe the size of a big wheel could make
it a more attractive option after all.

I would think less. My example weighs more than a traditional tire, and
it still needs a tire around it.


It'd lose the versatility of varying air pressures but on the other hand
you'd never get a puncture

Ahh, but riding through broken glass is one of my big wheel's strong
points! Though you can't get flats, the rubber can get cut up, which
can lead to little chunks getting knocked off. Still you get a ton of
miles out of that rubber. I only replaced the rubber once on the old
wheel, and haven't replaced it on the new wheel (which came with new
rubber). I haven't ridden it as much, especially since I got my Coker!

Come out for a visit and you can try my 45". Sorry, I won't be bringing
it to any Unicons unless they're within driving distance...


--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

Man with broken collar bone say: "Have you checked your shoelaces
lately?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/67311


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com