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  #71  
Old July 17th 19, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Am 17.07.2019 um 16:34 schrieb Tom Kunich:
2: If evolution worked the way that it is supposed to, speciation
could be expected to occur in a linear manner and that is NOT what it
has done. Particularly in the Cambrian Era where species of all sorts
suddenly appeared.


Where is it specified that speciation should be linear? Speciation
happens as a side effect of mutation as soon as the environment changes
significantly or as soon as a population of creates reaches a new
environment that is slightly similar but different to their normal
environment.
The appearance of new species is an emerging circle: a new species
appears with new abilities. This new species is better at competing for
resources than the existing species (or it would not survive). So
appearance of the new species is a significant impact on the environment
of other species, pressuring them to die out or speciate as well.

Also throughout the history of the Earth, rather
than species evolving they suddenly appeared in large numbers of
species. This does not look like evolution but rather mutation.


Mutation is a part of evolution. The main building blocks of evolution a
1) random Mutation that is slow enough to make the definition of a
species meaningful but fast enough to enable adjustment to changing
surroundings
2) survival of the fittest that kills off 99.99% of badly mutated creatures

Evolution says that these two mechanisms are sufficient to explain the
variety of life forms on earth.
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  #72  
Old July 17th 19, 04:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 6:28:35 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:

You may chose not to believe evolution is real, but you can't back it up with facts. Cases of modern speciation as a result of evolution (random mutation and natural selection - called RMNS) are abundant. The references I cited prove that. Unless you can specifically point how how the analysis of data vis a vis chromosomal/allele differentiation in the individual case studies are incorrect, you really need to shut the **** up.


Something that should scare you very much is that my Google showed a bunch of articles for evolution without asking for it. That means that Google is spying on you every time you use your phone or desktop.


If that bothers you, consider using a different search engine, like
duckduckgo.com Supposedly, it doesn't track you.

I'm snipping evidence of Tom's amazing ignorance about science. Try to remember,
Tom: Science is NOT a liberal conspiracy.

- Frank Krygowski
  #73  
Old July 17th 19, 04:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 7:40:32 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 7:22:11 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 6:34:33 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 7:23:19 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

All the money I made was from questioning even the simplest thing.

So I guess that really worked out for you when you wrote:

"I just changed investment counselors after speaking to a group tied to Merrill-Lynch. They were sort of shocked that I had lost money in the Trump market when everyone else made 15%+"

what a moron.....


Well, maybe he questioned that simple thing "buy low, sell high." Someone has to question it, just to make sure it is still working.

-- Jay Beattie.


While in a used book store I bought a copy of "Warren Buffet Invests Like A Girl" and reading that said just that - buy low and sell high. How successful have you been guessing what is low and what is high?


With Buffet, you're talking about M&As -- buying distressed companies, managing them into profitability and selling them off. You tell what is "low" by looking at various metrics from book value, top line, EBITDA, etc., etc. To determine whether it will become high, you look at prospects, potential synergies, risk and so forth. And then you determine what sort of return you can expect in that sector. Businesses in certain sectors sell for multiples of gross or net income -- so if you can flog income to a certain level, you can expect a particular return. This is real risk-taking because you're betting a lot on people to make the company run.

You're probably just throwing a few bucks into various funds, and judging by your loses, it sounds like you were into bonds, which the place they put retirees. Everybody took a hit on bonds. This kind of investing is hardly rocket science. You could have just plopped half/third your money into a Vanguard market index fund and let it sit. Put the other half/third in something less risky. Skip the fee-sucking investment counselors. Investment counseling for you probably takes ten minutes unless you're picking individual stocks and doing a serious job of picking.


-- Jay Beattie

  #74  
Old July 17th 19, 09:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 8:08:42 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 17.07.2019 um 16:34 schrieb Tom Kunich:
2: If evolution worked the way that it is supposed to, speciation
could be expected to occur in a linear manner and that is NOT what it
has done. Particularly in the Cambrian Era where species of all sorts
suddenly appeared.


Where is it specified that speciation should be linear? Speciation
happens as a side effect of mutation as soon as the environment changes
significantly or as soon as a population of creates reaches a new
environment that is slightly similar but different to their normal
environment.
The appearance of new species is an emerging circle: a new species
appears with new abilities. This new species is better at competing for
resources than the existing species (or it would not survive). So
appearance of the new species is a significant impact on the environment
of other species, pressuring them to die out or speciate as well.

Also throughout the history of the Earth, rather
than species evolving they suddenly appeared in large numbers of
species. This does not look like evolution but rather mutation.


Mutation is a part of evolution. The main building blocks of evolution a
1) random Mutation that is slow enough to make the definition of a
species meaningful but fast enough to enable adjustment to changing
surroundings
2) survival of the fittest that kills off 99.99% of badly mutated creatures

Evolution says that these two mechanisms are sufficient to explain the
variety of life forms on earth.


Rolf - It was Charles Darwin himself that showed charts and comments that said that evolution proceeded at a constant pace. "As many more individuals of each species are born than can possibly survive; and as, consequently, there is a frequently recurring struggle for existence, it follows that any being, if it vary however slightly in any manner profitable to itself, under the complex and sometimes varying conditions of life, will have a better chance of surviving, and thus be naturally selected. From the strong principle of inheritance, any selected variety will tend to propagate its new and modified form."

Do you know the difference between natural variation and mutation? Mutation has absolutely NOTHING to co with evolution. Especially since most mutations are sterile.
  #75  
Old July 17th 19, 09:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 8:45:29 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 6:28:35 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:

You may chose not to believe evolution is real, but you can't back it up with facts. Cases of modern speciation as a result of evolution (random mutation and natural selection - called RMNS) are abundant. The references I cited prove that. Unless you can specifically point how how the analysis of data vis a vis chromosomal/allele differentiation in the individual case studies are incorrect, you really need to shut the **** up.


Something that should scare you very much is that my Google showed a bunch of articles for evolution without asking for it. That means that Google is spying on you every time you use your phone or desktop.


If that bothers you, consider using a different search engine, like
duckduckgo.com Supposedly, it doesn't track you.

I'm snipping evidence of Tom's amazing ignorance about science. Try to remember,
Tom: Science is NOT a liberal conspiracy.

- Frank Krygowski


For a theory to be scientific it must have several factors involved:

1. Be testable and falsifiable ( You must be able to imagine some evidence or data that could prove your theory wrong.)
2. Explain natural phenomena
3. Be useful for making predictions
4. Not be absolute (theories are changeable if new data or observations are found)

Explain to everyone here how evolution meets 1. and 3.

Then explain why you do not understand 4.
  #76  
Old July 17th 19, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Zen Cycle
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Posts: 187
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

Something that should scare you very much is that my Google showed a
bunch of articles for evolution without asking for it. That means that
Google is spying on you every time you use your phone or desktop.


It doesn't scare me at all, it's nothing new, and it's not just google. Take your Ritalin, tommy, you're losing focus again.


But anyway, these Google articles made several very good points:
1. Thinking that evolution works is like thinking that a watch
assembles itself.


No article I reference claims that, and if that's the line of thinking your following, it's clear you have no understanding at all of evolution.

President Clinton said, "If you see a turtle on top of a fencepost you can
be sure that it didn't get there under its own power."


He was talking about politics, you asshat.

This is not a
very strong an argument but certainly has to get you thinking.


Not even worth considering in the context of evolution.

2: If evolution worked the way that it is supposed to, speciation could
be expected to occur in a linear manner and that is NOT what it has done.


There was never an expectation that evolution or speciation would be linear.. Your interpretation of Darwin (to Rolf) is incorrect, and the concept of "constant pace" is highly subjective.

Particularly in the Cambrian Era where species of all sorts suddenly
appeared.
Also throughout the history of the Earth, rather than species evolving
they suddenly appeared in large numbers of species. This does not look
like evolution but rather mutation.


Whenever a species is affected by increasing selection pressures, beneficial mutations result in variations of that species and the result is evolution. No selection pressures and the population remains genetically stable (with the exception of genetic drift). The factors behind the Cambrian Explosion are well-documented, and it wasn't 'sudden'. The period lasted for at least 13 million years - sudden in terms of the formation of the earth, but not exactly like it would be noticeable in the context of a known natural observer.

  #77  
Old July 17th 19, 10:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Zen Cycle
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Posts: 187
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 4:01:02 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

Do you know the difference between natural variation and mutation?


It's only a matter of scale. Even minor variations are a result of a mutation that drive the characteristic. Whether or not that variation has any effect on fitness* depends on selection pressures.

Mutation has absolutely NOTHING to co with evolution.


Mutation has EVERYTHING to do with evolution. Mutations are what enables certain members of a population to survive a selection pressure, or exploit a previously useless niche.

Especially since most mutations are sterile.


You're thinking of 'benign', not sterile. Sterility is a mutation unto it's own

*Fitness doesn't mean what you think it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_(biology)
  #78  
Old July 17th 19, 10:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Zen Cycle
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Posts: 187
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 4:08:29 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

For a theory to be scientific it must have several factors involved:

1. Be testable and falsifiable ( You must be able to imagine some evidence or data that could prove your theory wrong.)
2. Explain natural phenomena
3. Be useful for making predictions
4. Not be absolute (theories are changeable if new data or observations are found)

Explain to everyone here how evolution meets 1. and 3.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._col...ion_experiment
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705945/

Both Lenski and Kishony have testable, falsifiable, and verifiable published experiments showing the predictable evolution of microorganisms.

Then explain why you do not understand 4.


Where do you get the idea he doesn't? Besides that, a 'theory' does have to be mutable, but evolution is well past the mutable stage - like gravity. In effect, no longer a theory, but a law of nature. Your 'god-of-the-gaps' grows weaker by the minute.
  #79  
Old July 17th 19, 11:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 1,351
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On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:50:29 +0100, Tom Evans
wrote:

On 17/07/2019 05:18, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:34:12 +1000, James
wrote:

On 16/7/19 3:25 pm, John B. wrote:

:-) Not necessarily so. The sitting by the roadside in the rain I
described was two "finish nails" through the tire. Punctured the first
time, pulled the nail out changed the tube and almost exactly 1
kilometer down the road punctured again, the same kind of nail. I had
used up the only spare tube I was carrying, the patches won't stick,
it is raining.


I was riding with a couple of mates on a wet day and one of them had
three punctures. After emptying his two CO2 canisters on the first two
punctures, he begged for my pump. The patch worked too.


I had some of those glue less, or whatever you call 'em, patches they
didn't stick well in the rain, or at least mine didn't :-(


In WW2 pilots were given a patch kit for the inflatable life raft they
carried, in case they had to ditch in the sea. These patches stuck even
when applied in/under the water.

I'm pretty sure I have patched tyres in the rain successfully. The
problem I remember is my cold fingers having trouble getting the tyre off.


I can't speak for your patches but I can assure you that mine didn't
stick :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #80  
Old July 18th 19, 12:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,162
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 2:03:22 PM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 at 10:34:37 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

Something that should scare you very much is that my Google showed a
bunch of articles for evolution without asking for it. That means that
Google is spying on you every time you use your phone or desktop.


It doesn't scare me at all, it's nothing new, and it's not just google. Take your Ritalin, tommy, you're losing focus again.


But anyway, these Google articles made several very good points:
1. Thinking that evolution works is like thinking that a watch
assembles itself.


No article I reference claims that, and if that's the line of thinking your following, it's clear you have no understanding at all of evolution.

President Clinton said, "If you see a turtle on top of a fencepost you can
be sure that it didn't get there under its own power."


He was talking about politics, you asshat.

This is not a
very strong an argument but certainly has to get you thinking.


Not even worth considering in the context of evolution.

2: If evolution worked the way that it is supposed to, speciation could
be expected to occur in a linear manner and that is NOT what it has done.


There was never an expectation that evolution or speciation would be linear. Your interpretation of Darwin (to Rolf) is incorrect, and the concept of "constant pace" is highly subjective.

Particularly in the Cambrian Era where species of all sorts suddenly
appeared.
Also throughout the history of the Earth, rather than species evolving
they suddenly appeared in large numbers of species. This does not look
like evolution but rather mutation.


Whenever a species is affected by increasing selection pressures, beneficial mutations result in variations of that species and the result is evolution. No selection pressures and the population remains genetically stable (with the exception of genetic drift). The factors behind the Cambrian Explosion are well-documented, and it wasn't 'sudden'. The period lasted for at least 13 million years - sudden in terms of the formation of the earth, but not exactly like it would be noticeable in the context of a known natural observer.


The probability of the DNA of man forming is 1 to the 40,000th power. That is a 1 followed by 40,000 zeros. And it would be more likely that gears and wheels and springs would somehow be chipped out of ore and self assemble a Rolex.

"How can one gain some conception of the size of such a huge number? According to most Evolutionists, the universe is less than 30 billion years old -- and there are fewer than 10 to the 18th Power seconds in 30 billion years.. So, even if nature could somehow have produced trillions of genetic code combinations every second for 30 billion years, the probabilities against producing the simplest one-celled animal by trial and error would still be inconceivably immense!"

The orbital variation of Earth is 3,104,641 miles. If this was to vary by just 1,000 miles - 0.03% - life could not exist on this planet. It the Moon didn't exist in its EXACT orbit or if there was 1% less moisture on Earth life could not exist.

But you think that somehow magic occurred and life formed almost instantly after the Earth formed. Life formed on the Earth a bare 800,000,000 after the Earth formed and began to cool.

But to you that's evolution. It must be wonderful to believe in miracles.
 




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