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So Long Tubulars?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 19, 03:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default So Long Tubulars?

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/07/tube...our-de-france/

-- Jay Beattie
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  #2  
Old July 6th 19, 08:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Default So Long Tubulars?

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 9:01:22 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/07/tube...our-de-france/

-- Jay Beattie


I've seen similar stories too. Some YouTube sites say pros are using tubeless. But tubular wheels have one big advantage over clinchers/tubeless. The rim is lighter with tubular wheels. Tubeless wheels are not officially called clinchers anymore I guess. But they are clincher rims and have the sidewall sticking up to grab the tire bead. So the rim is automatically heavier. Many pro bikes are already rubbing the weight limit for how light they can be. And some pros add weight to meet the limit. So weight isn't really the issue. But I have heard and sort of believe that rim weight, wheel weight can be a detriment to bicycling. I doubt the pros want to intentionally handicap themselves by using anything but tubulars. The wheel weight issue is completely irrelevant for everyone else on earth except professional cyclists. For them alone it might matter. Money, fame, glory is involved for them.
  #3  
Old July 7th 19, 07:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Default So Long Tubulars?

I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for 99% of the people who think they're essential.
  #4  
Old July 7th 19, 05:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Default So Long Tubulars?

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 11:22:55 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for 99% of the people who think they're essential.


If you do not want to use them, no one is forcing you. They were designed to be ridden the life of the tire without a flat. That they have further advantages in no way reduces this most important point.

It is even comical that Jay who told us all that I was being stupid and wasting my time with tubeless now seems to see them as advantageous.

I can hardly wait for him to be accosted by homeless or Antifa in Portland and see what he has to say then about the police doing nothing.
  #5  
Old July 7th 19, 05:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Default So Long Tubulars?

What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it, both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.
  #6  
Old July 7th 19, 06:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Default So Long Tubulars?

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 9:48:43 AM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it, both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


What fooling around with it do you think there is? You tape the rim as normal, you install a tubeless tire normally. You pump the tire up with a standard floor pump. You bleed the air out of it as you would a tube tire to avoid twists in the tube. The single difference is that you then remove the air valve, inject sealant and then replace the air valve before reinflating the tire exactly as always. The tire THEN lasts the life of the sealant for some sorts of sealant or the life of the tire with others.

So explain to us all the messing about that is in some manner worse than having at least three flats per tube and sometimes going through three tubes per tire - especially in Goats Head Thorn season. NO tire I've seen will not be punctured by that sort of thorn. And yet I've pulled several of them out of the tubeless tires simply because I saw them. There was no air loss.
  #7  
Old July 7th 19, 08:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Default So Long Tubulars?

Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

  #8  
Old July 8th 19, 12:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Default So Long Tubulars?

The hassle factor is easy to observe. The performance benefit, if there is one, is unidentifiable.

I work in a bike shop. I've seen long struggles to seat a tubeless tire, and plenty of puddles of yogurty spoo on the floor. I've seen my coworkers give up, because a tire won't seat evenly after all their efforts. I won't do tubeless tire jobs.

I think that whoever chooses tubeless tires should handle his own maintenance. Otherwise, it's very much like ****ting your own pants on purpose and then hiring a professional to deal with the mess.
  #9  
Old July 8th 19, 02:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Default So Long Tubulars?

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.


.... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski
  #10  
Old July 8th 19, 07:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Default So Long Tubulars?

On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, Im a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.


... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski


But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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