IQ-X vs Edelux II

On Sun, 5 May 2019 15:52:05 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 3:38:06 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2019 09:38:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/4/2019 10:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 4 May 2019 09:26:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/4/2019 1:22 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2019 22:30:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/3/2019 7:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2019 15:01:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
er they would have been
quite happy to have "gone in the gutter".

There's a right way and a wrong way to take the lane. Merges to the left
have to be done carefully. Want details?

Ah, but they didn't merge to the left, it was a merge to the right :-)
But I think I understand now, it really isn't "TAKE THE LANE!" it is
more like "take the lane if you know my special way of doing it."

Again, there's a right way and a wrong way of doing it, John. The same
applies to proceeding from a stop sign, to passing a parked car, and
most other things on the road.

So tell us, how does one merge into traffic that is traveling anywhere
from 70 to 120 kph when you are traveling 20 kph?

I'd say you first wait for a suitable gap. Depending on the
circumstances, you may be moving as you watch for the gap to appear. If
that's not possible, you wait at the roadside. For me and the levels of
traffic I have to deal with, I'm almost always moving, in part because I
plan these moves pretty far ahead.

Well, a week ago we drove to Bangkok. About a 2 hour trip and traffic
was traveling at it's usual 100 - 120 kph speed and because it was
just after the Songkran holidays (the biggest holiday in Thailand)
traffic was a heavy, basically "bumper to bumper" all the way. The
highway is a 6 lane highway all the way with 10 wheel trucks in the
outer lanes and cars on the two inner lanes.

Given the speed of the motor vehicle traffic and the normal speed of
a bicycle I would guess that the "watch for the gap to appear. If
that's not possible, you wait at the roadside", would have been
measured in hours. And the lane that you might finally enter would
have been full of cars all doing 100 - 120 kph.


There have been times I've had look over my shoulder and look at each
driver as I continue signaling left. Invariably some driver will slow
and wave me over. I give them a wave of thanks.

The only times I've ridden in the presence of 120 kph traffic has been
on freeways out west. In almost every case, traffic was light and I
didn't need any quick merges left. I recall some sections of road where
traffic was fast and fairly heavy, and shoulders were not usable. A
couple times we pulled off and waited for traffic to clear. You do what
you have to do.

But on all of the inter city highways here the traffic is heavy,
particularly on the weekends. Before they built the new highway
between Bangkok and Khorat - some 300 km. - it has taken me more than
8 hours to drive it. It was the Chinese "Hungry Ghost" holiday and it
seemed as though all the Chinese in Bangkok were headed up-country to
clean the family graves. Can you imagine the traffic 300 km in
something over 8 hours and never out of 2nd gear the whole way :-(

But to be perfectly clear, trying to ride the edge line while 120 kph
traffic, or even 70 kph traffic buzzes by your elbow is _not_ a workable
alternative. I have taken narrow, bumpy lanes in such situations to
prevent that. Yes, it was unpleasant, but I did what I had to do.

The problem is that in many places there are no alternate lanes. The
highway I ride on my "Sunday Rides", where we live now, is the only
highway between the village where we live and Khorat, on the N.E. and
Bangkok on the S.W. A 6 lane divided highway with ~6 foot wide
"shoulders" as I have mentioned. So one rides on the shoulders, or not
at all.

John, this "taking the lane" thing confuses you. You seem to think I'm
advocating riding at lane center all the time, no matter what. But I'm
not advocating that.

What you have done is use the terms "seize the lane" or "take the
lane". The word "seize" is usually taken to mean "seize and take
control possibly without authority and possibly with force; take as
one's right or possession", or terms to that effect. As in this
morning's news, "2 million speed pills seized after car chase". Note
that they didn't seize part of the 2 million, they grabbed the whole
load.

"Take" is often deemed to mean "get into one's hands, take physically"
or " take into one's possession", although take can have other
meanings such as "take the bus", but as you write it appears to mean
that you take "the lane". And as you don't modify your statements with
terms such as "part of", "half, "a tiny bit" or any other qualifier, I
can only assume that you mean that you take the whole lane.

Thus my various comments.

John, if you'd put as much effort into learning as you put into
misunderstanding, you'd have had this all figured out by now.

Ah but Frank. I simply listened to what you said and interpreted what
you said using common, garden verity, English.

I'll again recommend _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. Anyone who is really
into cycling should have read it long ago.

Why? Does he know some secret stuff that out weighs my lifelong
philosophy of "don't get hit by a car/truck"?

You'll never know until you read the book. https://www.amazon.com/Cyclecraft-Co.../dp/0117064769 Are you going to quarrel about $9 when it COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE! Chapter 1: https://tinyurl.com/y4ynyg3y

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, my mother told me, oh when I was 5 or 6 years old, "to look both
ways before I crossed the road and not to walk out in front of cars
and trucks". And, you know? I've followed her instruction ever since
and they work! I've never been hit by a car or a truck. Will reading
the book better this?
--
cheers,

John B.

On 5/5/2019 6:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2019 09:38:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

John, if you'd put as much effort into learning as you put into
misunderstanding, you'd have had this all figured out by now.

Ah but Frank. I simply listened to what you said and interpreted what
you said using common, garden verity, English.

In reality, you've MISinterpreted what I've said. Or at least,
misrepresented it. You've done this multiple times, so it seems deliberate.


I'll again recommend _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. Anyone who is really
into cycling should have read it long ago.

Why? Does he know some secret stuff that out weighs my lifelong
philosophy of "don't get hit by a car/truck"?

I am absolutely positive he knows much more than you do about cycling in
traffic.

I remain amazed by the number of cycling enthusiasts who are willing to
see all sorts of money spent by themselves or by others, to attempt to
make their cycling experience better. I'm talking about everything from
new tires, new wheels, new drivetrains, new frames, new complete bikes,
new bike lanes, new bike paths, or entirely new transportation systems.

But they won't spend a few bucks on a book that teaches real world
riding techniques, let alone take a cycling course. They somehow assume
they know everything there is to know.

It's the famous Dunning-Kruger effect.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 5 May 2019 21:47:10 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/5/2019 6:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2019 09:38:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

John, if you'd put as much effort into learning as you put into
misunderstanding, you'd have had this all figured out by now.

Ah but Frank. I simply listened to what you said and interpreted what
you said using common, garden verity, English.

In reality, you've MISinterpreted what I've said. Or at least,
misrepresented it. You've done this multiple times, so it seems deliberate.

You mean I misrepresented the word "Seize" or the word "Take"? I don't
believe that I did. In fact I even furnished several quotations from a
dictionary that illustrated why I have interpreted your comments the
way I did.

Or is this a matter of "well yes, I did say that but I what I actually
meant was this"?



I'll again recommend _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. Anyone who is really
into cycling should have read it long ago.

Why? Does he know some secret stuff that out weighs my lifelong
philosophy of "don't get hit by a car/truck"?

I am absolutely positive he knows much more than you do about cycling in
traffic.

And how did he learn, or was he blessed from birth with the knowledge?
I might comment that I have been riding in Bangkok traffic, usually
rated as some of the most chaotic in the world for about 20 years now
and Thailand normally comes in second as having the most traffic
deaths in the world, without a collision and can't even remember
having a close call. Not to say that I never had a "close call" but it
certainly wasn't terrifying enough to be memorable.

I remain amazed by the number of cycling enthusiasts who are willing to
see all sorts of money spent by themselves or by others, to attempt to
make their cycling experience better. I'm talking about everything from
new tires, new wheels, new drivetrains, new frames, new complete bikes,
new bike lanes, new bike paths, or entirely new transportation systems.

But they won't spend a few bucks on a book that teaches real world
riding techniques, let alone take a cycling course. They somehow assume
they know everything there is to know.

And what would that surreptitious knowledge be? How to seize the lane?
But I don't have to seize any lanes as I ride on roads with big wide
shoulders. And, I might add, that is exactly where the traffic laws of
this country require me to ride.

Or perhaps "look around you to see who might be making a right turn
into you"? Actually it is "left" turn here :-) I find it strange that
I've never heard that "secret" divulged here, "just look around and
you can see 'em before they hit you".

It's the famous Dunning-Kruger effect.

Well, as I have said, I have ridden in some of the most chaotic
traffic in the world for 20 years without a single collision. What is
my cognitive ability as opposed to my actual ability.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 6:47:14 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/5/2019 6:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2019 09:38:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

John, if you'd put as much effort into learning as you put into
misunderstanding, you'd have had this all figured out by now.

Ah but Frank. I simply listened to what you said and interpreted what
you said using common, garden verity, English.

In reality, you've MISinterpreted what I've said. Or at least,
misrepresented it. You've done this multiple times, so it seems deliberate.


I'll again recommend _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. Anyone who is really
into cycling should have read it long ago.

Why? Does he know some secret stuff that out weighs my lifelong
philosophy of "don't get hit by a car/truck"?

I am absolutely positive he knows much more than you do about cycling in
traffic.

I remain amazed by the number of cycling enthusiasts who are willing to
see all sorts of money spent by themselves or by others, to attempt to
make their cycling experience better. I'm talking about everything from
new tires, new wheels, new drivetrains, new frames, new complete bikes,
new bike lanes, new bike paths, or entirely new transportation systems.

But they won't spend a few bucks on a book that teaches real world
riding techniques, let alone take a cycling course. They somehow assume
they know everything there is to know.

It's the famous Dunning-Kruger effect.

Hey, the Dunning-Kruger effect works both ways. The Officious Cycling experts claim to know everything there is to know -- based on a book and a ride-around-some-cones skills class. Half the time, they don't even know the VC -- but they can tell you about "position one."

Neither riding a bike nor driving a car is rocket science. https://www.oregon.gov/odot/programs...ist-manual.pdf

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/5/19 3:16 pm, John B. wrote:


What kind of roads do you ride on. Over here the majority of the roads
that I use, both in Bangkok and the country side, have paved shoulders
as much as 6 feet wide which serve for a motorcycle and bicycle lane,
bus lane, breakdown lane, you name it lane. I honestly can't remember
when I impeded anyone else.



Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

--
JS

James wrote:
On 3/5/19 3:16 pm, John B. wrote:


What kind of roads do you ride on. Over here the majority of the roads
that I use, both in Bangkok and the country side, have paved shoulders
as much as 6 feet wide which serve for a motorcycle and bicycle lane,
bus lane, breakdown lane, you name it lane. I honestly can't remember
when I impeded anyone else.

So the bus (between stops) isn't faster than John B. Are these oxen- or
solar-powered buses?

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the perceived
standard traffic position.

--
Another clipped food-truck mirror, another cross ... because of false
"common sense"
https://www.haz.de/Umland/Burgdorf/Toedlicher-Unfall-bei-Burgdorf-Radfahrer-auf-L412-von-Auto-erfasst

Am 04.05.2019 um 01:02 schrieb John B.:
There's a right way and a wrong way to take the lane. Merges to the left
have to be done carefully. Want details?

Ah, but they didn't merge to the left, it was a merge to the right:-)
But I think I understand now, it really isn't "TAKE THE LANE!" it is
more like "take the lane if you know my special way of doing it." So
tell us, how does one merge into traffic that is traveling anywhere
from 70 to 120 kph when you are traveling 20 kph?

How is a tractor doing it? How does a truck moving at 90 km/h merge into
a freeway lane where the cars are doing 200 km/h to overtake a truck
doing 85 km/h?

You merge to into the lane only if you can see that the lane is free for
a sufficient length of time.

Am 06.05.2019 um 00:38 schrieb John B.:
I'll again recommend_Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. Anyone who is really
into cycling should have read it long ago.

Why? Does he know some secret stuff that out weighs my lifelong
philosophy of "don't get hit by a car/truck"?

A philosophy of not doing something is not very constructive. John
Franklin gives lots of explanations and recommendation *how* to achieve
your aim 'don't get hit'.

On 6/5/19 5:20 pm, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:
On 3/5/19 3:16 pm, John B. wrote:


What kind of roads do you ride on. Over here the majority of the roads
that I use, both in Bangkok and the country side, have paved shoulders
as much as 6 feet wide which serve for a motorcycle and bicycle lane,
bus lane, breakdown lane, you name it lane. I honestly can't remember
when I impeded anyone else.

So the bus (between stops) isn't faster than John B. Are these oxen- or
solar-powered buses?

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the perceived
standard traffic position.


Along one major road there is a shoulder for quite a distance, and
though I ride just within the lane, I often move into the shoulder as
motor vehicles are driven past.

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less comfortable.

I haven't had a flat since ... I can't remember. Possibly 5,000 -
10,000 km. I've never taken to the ditch either. YMMV.

--
JS

On Mon, 6 May 2019 09:20:32 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

James wrote:
On 3/5/19 3:16 pm, John B. wrote:


What kind of roads do you ride on. Over here the majority of the roads
that I use, both in Bangkok and the country side, have paved shoulders
as much as 6 feet wide which serve for a motorcycle and bicycle lane,
bus lane, breakdown lane, you name it lane. I honestly can't remember
when I impeded anyone else.

So the bus (between stops) isn't faster than John B. Are these oxen- or
solar-powered buses?

Nope. the bus stops use the paved shoulders, but between stops the
bus uses the outer traffic lane. As I mentioned the outer "paved
Shoulders" serve as "a motorcycle and bicycle lane, bus lane,
breakdown lane, you name it lane". Even a parking lane at times :-)

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the perceived
standard traffic position.
--
cheers,

John B.