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IQ-X vs Edelux II



 
 
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  #441  
Old May 8th 19, 07:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

On 8/5/19 1:12 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:


But still, if you crash in a race for whatever reason, it almost always
means you're out of contention.


I don't think you've watched enough professional bike racing. There are
often pileups where most riders get back on and are in contention.

--
JS

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  #442  
Old May 8th 19, 08:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

Am 07.05.2019 um 17:55 schrieb Sepp Ruf:
Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570
(videos) He has all this video gear, has a rear-view mirror, but fails to
move to the center of his lane (12 ft, probably) until the opposing lane is
free again.


Less than 12 ft, German standard would be 3.5m (10-11ft).
  #443  
Old May 8th 19, 08:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

Am 08.05.2019 um 00:58 schrieb James:

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.


In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570


Not really like that guy.* I guess everyone rides a little differently.
I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least ride there at a
time of day when there was less motor traffic.


There's likely no "time of day when there's less traffic" (only a time
of night); avoiding that road might mean significant detours (in hilly
regions you tend to like staying in the valley rather than going over
the hills).


  #444  
Old May 8th 19, 09:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

Am 08.05.2019 um 00:58 schrieb James:
I rarely complain about close calls.* On the road I mentioned above with
no shoulder, that is similar to the one in the video, I recall hearing a
horn behind me, so I looked and the driver towing wide trailer was
driving at me at 100km/h while there was oncoming cars.* The oncoming
cars had just appeared around a bend, so it would have been futile to
move out to block the driver behind me.* Instead I avoided a collision
by riding just beyond the fog line in the gravel.* Yes I bailed.


Let's put it that way:
1) Ideally you ride in the middle of the lane all the time on fast
shoulder-less roads . This gives an early signal to approaching cars
"you need to overtake carefully". (If in the rush hour the road changes
to "slow", cycling on the side and allowing cars to overtake at 30 km/h
might be appropriate.)
2) In the rare situation that somebody else makes an error of judgement,
it is better to bail than to be run over. Step 1 should reduce the
number of such incidents by a factor of 10 or more.

Disclaimer: this behavior is correct for countries (like EU and USA)
where the law specifies equal priority rights for bicylces and
motorists. In Turkey e.g. I would not cycle on such roads at all.

  #445  
Old May 8th 19, 10:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
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Posts: 1,546
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

James wrote:
On 8/5/19 12:45 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2019 6:58 PM, James wrote:
On 8/5/19 1:55 am, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:
On 6/5/19 5:20 pm, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even
have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The
Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard
driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the
perceived
standard traffic position.


Along one major road there is a shoulder for quite a distance, and
though I ride just within the lane, I often move into the shoulder as
motor vehicles are driven past.

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570

Not really like that guy.Â* I guess everyone rides a little
differently. I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least
ride there at a time of day when there was less motor traffic.

I rarely complain about close calls.Â* On the road I mentioned above
with no shoulder, that is similar to the one in the video, I recall
hearing a horn behind me, so I looked and the driver towing wide
trailer was driving at me at 100km/h while there was oncoming cars.
The oncoming cars had just appeared around a bend, so it would have
been futile to move out to block the driver behind me.Â* Instead I
avoided a collision by riding just beyond the fog line in the gravel.
Yes I bailed.Â* I didn't end up in a ditch or with a puncture, and I'm
still here today typing a reply.Â* YMMV.

I don't think Frank would even advocate moving out in front of a
vehicle being driven at 100km/h that obviously did not enough time or
distance to slow safely to 30km/h (my speed).

Should I have been lane centre?Â* Well, moments earlier there was no
reason to be.Â* Timing is everything.


Well, one of the things I was taught in the last cycling class I took
was the value of being out in the lane very early. John fusses over the
supposed impossibility of moving left. But these days I tend to agree a
lot more with John Franklin, and treat lane center as the normal place
to be.

The value is, in part, that motorists half a mile back can see you're
something they'll have to deal with. They slow much sooner when
necessary, they change lanes much sooner to pass. On four-lane roads,
they begin looking for opportunities to merge left a lot sooner, and
start negotiating with other motorists sooner in order to do that move.

And incidentally, this is something that has changed since my first
cycling class (in about 1980, IIRC). At that time, people were saying
the right tire track was far enough left. Decades of discussion, tests,
debate and analysis have taught people that further left is a better
default position.

To John and Jay, that's a bit of evidence that this material is not just
the product of one man's imagination.



I've tried riding closer to the middle of the lane. In some parts of
that particular road it is essential because the road surface is a mine
field if potholes in the left wheel track (right for you). But on the
whole it seems to elicit more aggro. Drivers don't understand why
you're "taking up the whole road" and not hugging the left edge. You
then tend to get very close high speed passes, with clear intent to
scare the **** out of you, along with abuse and verbal threats.


My experience as well.

I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.



--
duane
  #446  
Old May 8th 19, 02:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 2:53:31 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 8/5/19 12:45 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2019 6:58 PM, James wrote:
On 8/5/19 1:55 am, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:
On 6/5/19 5:20 pm, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even
have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The
Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard
driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the
perceived
standard traffic position.


Along one major road there is a shoulder for quite a distance, and
though I ride just within the lane, I often move into the shoulder as
motor vehicles are driven past.

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570

Not really like that guy.Â* I guess everyone rides a little
differently. I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least
ride there at a time of day when there was less motor traffic.

I rarely complain about close calls.Â* On the road I mentioned above
with no shoulder, that is similar to the one in the video, I recall
hearing a horn behind me, so I looked and the driver towing wide
trailer was driving at me at 100km/h while there was oncoming cars.
The oncoming cars had just appeared around a bend, so it would have
been futile to move out to block the driver behind me.Â* Instead I
avoided a collision by riding just beyond the fog line in the gravel.
Yes I bailed.Â* I didn't end up in a ditch or with a puncture, and I'm
still here today typing a reply.Â* YMMV.

I don't think Frank would even advocate moving out in front of a
vehicle being driven at 100km/h that obviously did not enough time or
distance to slow safely to 30km/h (my speed).

Should I have been lane centre?Â* Well, moments earlier there was no
reason to be.Â* Timing is everything.

Well, one of the things I was taught in the last cycling class I took
was the value of being out in the lane very early. John fusses over the
supposed impossibility of moving left. But these days I tend to agree a
lot more with John Franklin, and treat lane center as the normal place
to be.

The value is, in part, that motorists half a mile back can see you're
something they'll have to deal with. They slow much sooner when
necessary, they change lanes much sooner to pass. On four-lane roads,
they begin looking for opportunities to merge left a lot sooner, and
start negotiating with other motorists sooner in order to do that move..

And incidentally, this is something that has changed since my first
cycling class (in about 1980, IIRC). At that time, people were saying
the right tire track was far enough left. Decades of discussion, tests,
debate and analysis have taught people that further left is a better
default position.

To John and Jay, that's a bit of evidence that this material is not just
the product of one man's imagination.



I've tried riding closer to the middle of the lane. In some parts of
that particular road it is essential because the road surface is a mine
field if potholes in the left wheel track (right for you). But on the
whole it seems to elicit more aggro. Drivers don't understand why
you're "taking up the whole road" and not hugging the left edge. You
then tend to get very close high speed passes, with clear intent to
scare the **** out of you, along with abuse and verbal threats.


My experience as well.

I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.


The middle of the lane as the "normal" or usual place for a bicycle violates the law in most US states. I don't know of any exceptions off the top of my head -- maybe Ohio. It is usually an exception, i.e. you can take the lane when going the speed of traffic or when it is not safe to be as far right as is practicable or setting up for a left, etc. When you take the lane, you trigger slow moving vehicle or impeding laws.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #447  
Old May 8th 19, 04:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

On 08/05/2019 9:52 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 2:53:31 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 8/5/19 12:45 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2019 6:58 PM, James wrote:
On 8/5/19 1:55 am, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:
On 6/5/19 5:20 pm, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even
have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The
Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard
driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the
perceived
standard traffic position.


Along one major road there is a shoulder for quite a distance, and
though I ride just within the lane, I often move into the shoulder as
motor vehicles are driven past.

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570

Not really like that guy.Â* I guess everyone rides a little
differently. I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least
ride there at a time of day when there was less motor traffic.

I rarely complain about close calls.Â* On the road I mentioned above
with no shoulder, that is similar to the one in the video, I recall
hearing a horn behind me, so I looked and the driver towing wide
trailer was driving at me at 100km/h while there was oncoming cars.
The oncoming cars had just appeared around a bend, so it would have
been futile to move out to block the driver behind me.Â* Instead I
avoided a collision by riding just beyond the fog line in the gravel.
Yes I bailed.Â* I didn't end up in a ditch or with a puncture, and I'm
still here today typing a reply.Â* YMMV.

I don't think Frank would even advocate moving out in front of a
vehicle being driven at 100km/h that obviously did not enough time or
distance to slow safely to 30km/h (my speed).

Should I have been lane centre?Â* Well, moments earlier there was no
reason to be.Â* Timing is everything.

Well, one of the things I was taught in the last cycling class I took
was the value of being out in the lane very early. John fusses over the
supposed impossibility of moving left. But these days I tend to agree a
lot more with John Franklin, and treat lane center as the normal place
to be.

The value is, in part, that motorists half a mile back can see you're
something they'll have to deal with. They slow much sooner when
necessary, they change lanes much sooner to pass. On four-lane roads,
they begin looking for opportunities to merge left a lot sooner, and
start negotiating with other motorists sooner in order to do that move.

And incidentally, this is something that has changed since my first
cycling class (in about 1980, IIRC). At that time, people were saying
the right tire track was far enough left. Decades of discussion, tests,
debate and analysis have taught people that further left is a better
default position.

To John and Jay, that's a bit of evidence that this material is not just
the product of one man's imagination.



I've tried riding closer to the middle of the lane. In some parts of
that particular road it is essential because the road surface is a mine
field if potholes in the left wheel track (right for you). But on the
whole it seems to elicit more aggro. Drivers don't understand why
you're "taking up the whole road" and not hugging the left edge. You
then tend to get very close high speed passes, with clear intent to
scare the **** out of you, along with abuse and verbal threats.


My experience as well.

I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.


The middle of the lane as the "normal" or usual place for a bicycle violates the law in most US states. I don't know of any exceptions off the top of my head -- maybe Ohio. It is usually an exception, i.e. you can take the lane when going the speed of traffic or when it is not safe to be as far right as is practicable or setting up for a left, etc. When you take the lane, you trigger slow moving vehicle or impeding laws.



I've lived in New Orleans, Boston and Albany NY and it was more or less
the same. In Quebec there is no rider for when you're moving at the
speed of traffic. The only rider is to avoid obstacles including door
zones. I posted that recently.

There is no rider for "I don't feel safe when the cars pass too closely"
or anything like that. I guess the logic being that there is a close
passing law that should prevent that. Yeah, yeah I know. Mon oeil as
they say here. But one nice thing is that we had a Sureté (cops) guy at
our club's group leader training meeting earlier this month to go over
some changes in the vehicle code. One thing that he mentioned was that
the bike cops are going to be equipped with "devices" to detect passing
distance and they will ticket offenders. Maybe that will make a
difference...



  #448  
Old May 8th 19, 06:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

On 5/7/2019 11:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:


And don't tell me you ride in as much inclement weather as I do...


I didn't say that. But I do ride on ice and on snow every winter.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #449  
Old May 8th 19, 07:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

On 5/8/2019 5:53 AM, Duane wrote:

In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.


I've ridden only a tiny bit in Quebec.

But let me ask: When you are riding down a quiet residential street (our
is 18 feet wide, no center line, 800 cars per day), do you really ride
close to the gutter?

I know no avid cyclists who do that. Even those who haven't thought
about this ride in the center of the right "virtual" lane on quiet
streets. I suppose a few of the really timid ones might move within a
foot of the edge if a car comes up behind, but AFAIK nobody I ride with
does that in such a situation.

I have seen many purportedly competent cyclists edge ride on relatively
narrow roads, but those have not been narrow residential streets.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #450  
Old May 8th 19, 07:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default IQ-X vs Edelux II

On 5/8/2019 9:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 8, 2019 at 2:53:31 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 8/5/19 12:45 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/7/2019 6:58 PM, James wrote:
On 8/5/19 1:55 am, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:
On 6/5/19 5:20 pm, Sepp Ruf wrote:
James wrote:

Most roads I ride on have no shoulder at all, and many don't even
have
fog lines. On some roads you might find a narrow shoulder (maybe 0.5m
wide if you're lucky).

Use them and you'll keep getting flats and keep bailing, like The
Great
Joerg, into the ditch because motorists tend not to take standard
driver
action (brake or move to adjacent lane) if you ride outside of the
perceived
standard traffic position.


Along one major road there is a shoulder for quite a distance, and
though I ride just within the lane, I often move into the shoulder as
motor vehicles are driven past.

Along another road that has as much traffic but no shoulder, despite
riding in lane, I've had numerous close calls and feel far less
comfortable.

In lane like this guy?
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1124022735846486025
https://twitter.com/Natenom/status/1116590779986669570

Not really like that guy.Â* I guess everyone rides a little
differently. I would probably avoid riding on that road, or at least
ride there at a time of day when there was less motor traffic.

I rarely complain about close calls.Â* On the road I mentioned above
with no shoulder, that is similar to the one in the video, I recall
hearing a horn behind me, so I looked and the driver towing wide
trailer was driving at me at 100km/h while there was oncoming cars.
The oncoming cars had just appeared around a bend, so it would have
been futile to move out to block the driver behind me.Â* Instead I
avoided a collision by riding just beyond the fog line in the gravel.
Yes I bailed.Â* I didn't end up in a ditch or with a puncture, and I'm
still here today typing a reply.Â* YMMV.

I don't think Frank would even advocate moving out in front of a
vehicle being driven at 100km/h that obviously did not enough time or
distance to slow safely to 30km/h (my speed).

Should I have been lane centre?Â* Well, moments earlier there was no
reason to be.Â* Timing is everything.

Well, one of the things I was taught in the last cycling class I took
was the value of being out in the lane very early. John fusses over the
supposed impossibility of moving left. But these days I tend to agree a
lot more with John Franklin, and treat lane center as the normal place
to be.

The value is, in part, that motorists half a mile back can see you're
something they'll have to deal with. They slow much sooner when
necessary, they change lanes much sooner to pass. On four-lane roads,
they begin looking for opportunities to merge left a lot sooner, and
start negotiating with other motorists sooner in order to do that move.

And incidentally, this is something that has changed since my first
cycling class (in about 1980, IIRC). At that time, people were saying
the right tire track was far enough left. Decades of discussion, tests,
debate and analysis have taught people that further left is a better
default position.

To John and Jay, that's a bit of evidence that this material is not just
the product of one man's imagination.



I've tried riding closer to the middle of the lane. In some parts of
that particular road it is essential because the road surface is a mine
field if potholes in the left wheel track (right for you). But on the
whole it seems to elicit more aggro. Drivers don't understand why
you're "taking up the whole road" and not hugging the left edge. You
then tend to get very close high speed passes, with clear intent to
scare the **** out of you, along with abuse and verbal threats.


My experience as well.

I tend to ride in a position where I hope they are aiming to pass
safely, but where I have adequate space to move further away if I sense
it is going to be tight.


In Quebec you’re supposed to keep to the right unless avoiding obstacles
including door zones. Taking lane center will get you a ticket. When in
a group, one person riding center lane will get the whole group a ticket.

If it’s a situation where it’s unsafe to pass such as a single lane road,
typical here on some small bridges, you can take the lane as there’s no
room to safely pass anyway.


The middle of the lane as the "normal" or usual place for a bicycle violates the law in most US states. I don't know of any exceptions off the top of my head -- maybe Ohio. It is usually an exception, i.e. you can take the lane when going the speed of traffic or when it is not safe to be as far right as is practicable or setting up for a left, etc. When you take the lane, you trigger slow moving vehicle or impeding laws.


Those laws have no legitimate purpose when the roadway lacks traffic.
Why should I have to keep right if nobody's coming and the center of the
lane is smoother?

And there are other times that exceptions should apply, as they do in Ohio.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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