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So Long Tubulars?



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 10th 19, 09:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:57:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 5:41:44 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:39:44 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you
have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting
lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement
lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't
have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when
you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any
punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to
just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler,
so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I
had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also
think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an
incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And
we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle
and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to
"few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the
first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!)
Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the
top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc
brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never
once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some
may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if
you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some
of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less
rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

He's got a computer and at least one opinion. What more does one need?

Radey - if you have an opinion and nothing more there is the .soc
group. Here you are expected to actually have some technical
knowledge. The major problem with the Internet these days is that
people mistake opinions for knowledge. Even the media now has eschewed
knowledge for opinion.


It's Usenet -- no one vets your palmares, no one vouches for your bona
fides. But every reader can decide for him- or herself whether a post
is sufficiently useful/interesting/entertaining to read. Hostility can
be both unrelenting *and* entertaining, but it's tough to keep that up
for 20 or 30 posts a day. Look at Andre, a man hardened by years of
payment by the word, see how he paces himself.

I'm not all sure that years of reading Usenet have been time well spent,
but I have learned a thing or two. One is that, although I devoutly hope
one day to retire while still able to ride a bike, a person *can* have
too much free time. The other is that if doing or reading something
makes me crazy, it's better to give it a rest.

--


I don't follow you. What does "palmares" have to do with anything? tech is not who you rode with, what you rode and why you rode it. If you cannot see what works and what doesn't than why in hell would you be on .tech to begin with?

Surely you might not understand a point or a necessary repair, but if it is explained to you and you cannot verify that it is correct simply by trying it, then again you haven't any place on .tech.

I have never seen any addition to the group from John or Frank and Ridesalot. To them this is nothing more than a social group.


By golly, you are right! "Tech is not who you rode with, what you rode
and why you rode it, If you cannot see what works and what doesn't
than why in hell would you be on .tech to begin with?"

But of course you just posted:

"I arrived home after 39 miles, 3,500 ft. of climbing and logged it.
Just over 2,000 miles and just over 80,000 Ft of climbing. I guess
that keeping track of that sort of thing insults Frank whose idea of a
ride is down to the village and back."

So perhaps you could give us some more details about the "see what
works and what doesn't" that you just furnished in that thrilling
tale.

--

Cheers,

John B.
Ads
  #32  
Old July 10th 19, 03:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 1:33:44 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:57:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 5:41:44 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:39:44 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you
have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting
lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement
lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't
have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when
you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any
punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to
just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler,
so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I
had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also
think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an
incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And
we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle
and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to
"few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the
first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!)
Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the
top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc
brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never
once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some
may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if
you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some
of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less
rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

He's got a computer and at least one opinion. What more does one need?

Radey - if you have an opinion and nothing more there is the .soc
group. Here you are expected to actually have some technical
knowledge. The major problem with the Internet these days is that
people mistake opinions for knowledge. Even the media now has eschewed
knowledge for opinion.

It's Usenet -- no one vets your palmares, no one vouches for your bona
fides. But every reader can decide for him- or herself whether a post
is sufficiently useful/interesting/entertaining to read. Hostility can
be both unrelenting *and* entertaining, but it's tough to keep that up
for 20 or 30 posts a day. Look at Andre, a man hardened by years of
payment by the word, see how he paces himself.

I'm not all sure that years of reading Usenet have been time well spent,
but I have learned a thing or two. One is that, although I devoutly hope
one day to retire while still able to ride a bike, a person *can* have
too much free time. The other is that if doing or reading something
makes me crazy, it's better to give it a rest.

--


I don't follow you. What does "palmares" have to do with anything? tech is not who you rode with, what you rode and why you rode it. If you cannot see what works and what doesn't than why in hell would you be on .tech to begin with?

Surely you might not understand a point or a necessary repair, but if it is explained to you and you cannot verify that it is correct simply by trying it, then again you haven't any place on .tech.

I have never seen any addition to the group from John or Frank and Ridesalot. To them this is nothing more than a social group.


By golly, you are right! "Tech is not who you rode with, what you rode
and why you rode it, If you cannot see what works and what doesn't
than why in hell would you be on .tech to begin with?"

But of course you just posted:

"I arrived home after 39 miles, 3,500 ft. of climbing and logged it.
Just over 2,000 miles and just over 80,000 Ft of climbing. I guess
that keeping track of that sort of thing insults Frank whose idea of a
ride is down to the village and back."

So perhaps you could give us some more details about the "see what
works and what doesn't" that you just furnished in that thrilling
tale.

--

Cheers,

John B.


Tell us how much you've ridden John. What have you actually done on your bike? Why are you on .tech? You've never been to the market with your wife so you have absolutely no idea of how to compare the price of food with what it is here now. You've never ridden a bike that could get out of its own way but you can criticize people who have.
  #33  
Old July 10th 19, 03:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 7/6/2019 11:22 PM, Chalo wrote:
I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for 99% of the people who think they're essential.


Anyone not going tubeless is standing in the way of human progress.

Seriously, for racers the weight savings make some sense since their
support vehicle will just hand them a replacement wheel and tire if they
get a flat, but for normal riders they're just an expensive hassle.

If you come across someone on the side of the road, asking to borrow
your pump, standing there in Lycra with empty CO2 cartridges on the
ground, you can be pretty certain that they're using tubeless. Any
minuscule time savings due to the slight weight savings is lost in the
noise when compared to the additional time to fix a flat.

Airless is really the future of bicycle tires
https://mashable.com/2018/05/15/new-way-of-cycling-with-airless-tires-that-never-go-flat/.

  #34  
Old July 10th 19, 04:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default So Long Tubulars?

Am 10.07.2019 um 16:45 schrieb sms:
Airless is really the future of bicycle tires
https://mashable.com/2018/05/15/new-way-of-cycling-with-airless-tires-that-never-go-flat/.


Like the "Green tyre" of the 1990's?
Rolling resistance of such tires are notoriously bad.


  #35  
Old July 10th 19, 04:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 7/10/2019 10:05 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 10.07.2019 um 16:45 schrieb sms:
Airless is really the future of bicycle tires
https://mashable.com/2018/05/15/new-way-of-cycling-with-airless-tires-that-never-go-flat/.



Like the "Green tyre" of the 1990's?
Rolling resistance of such tires are notoriously bad.



Yes. And the 1980 tires were worse:
https://patents.justia.com/assignee/...e-tire-company

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #36  
Old July 10th 19, 05:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 10/07/2019 10:45 a.m., sms wrote:
On 7/6/2019 11:22 PM, Chalo wrote:
I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new
sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for
99% of the people who think they're essential.


Anyone not going tubeless is standing in the way of human progress.

Seriously, for racers the weight savings make some sense since their
support vehicle will just hand them a replacement wheel and tire if they
get a flat, but for normal riders they're just an expensive hassle.

If you come across someone on the side of the road, asking to borrow
your pump, standing there in Lycra with empty CO2 cartridges on the
ground, you can be pretty certain that they're using tubeless. Any
minuscule time savings due to the slight weight savings is lost in the
noise when compared to the additional time to fix a flat.


Not sure what Lycra has to do with it or CO2 for that matter but
tubeless tires here are pretty much a rarity so I would be that they
aren't using tubeless.

And anyway, I'd likely lend them one of my CO2 instead of my pump since
I wouldn't want to wait for them to pump up their tires.

I know one guy using tubeless in my club and the last time he rode with
us he had a slow leak and had to stop every 20 km to pump the tires.
That's out of ~400 members.

Maybe I'm missing your point amid the lycra/co2 smoke...

Airless is really the future of bicycle tires
https://mashable.com/2018/05/15/new-way-of-cycling-with-airless-tires-that-never-go-flat/.



  #37  
Old July 10th 19, 05:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 7:45:34 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/6/2019 11:22 PM, Chalo wrote:
I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for 99% of the people who think they're essential.


Anyone not going tubeless is standing in the way of human progress.

Seriously, for racers the weight savings make some sense since their
support vehicle will just hand them a replacement wheel and tire if they
get a flat, but for normal riders they're just an expensive hassle.

If you come across someone on the side of the road, asking to borrow
your pump, standing there in Lycra with empty CO2 cartridges on the
ground, you can be pretty certain that they're using tubeless. Any
minuscule time savings due to the slight weight savings is lost in the
noise when compared to the additional time to fix a flat.

Airless is really the future of bicycle tires
https://mashable.com/2018/05/15/new-way-of-cycling-with-airless-tires-that-never-go-flat/.


Really - what in the hell are you talking about? I've had more flats on Gatorskins than on tubeless.
  #38  
Old July 10th 19, 06:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 12:09:53 PM UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 10/07/2019 10:45 a.m., sms wrote:
On 7/6/2019 11:22 PM, Chalo wrote:
I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new
sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for
99% of the people who think they're essential.


Anyone not going tubeless is standing in the way of human progress.

Seriously, for racers the weight savings make some sense since their
support vehicle will just hand them a replacement wheel and tire if they
get a flat, but for normal riders they're just an expensive hassle.

If you come across someone on the side of the road, asking to borrow
your pump, standing there in Lycra with empty CO2 cartridges on the
ground, you can be pretty certain that they're using tubeless. Any
minuscule time savings due to the slight weight savings is lost in the
noise when compared to the additional time to fix a flat.


Not sure what Lycra has to do with it or CO2 for that matter but
tubeless tires here are pretty much a rarity so I would be that they
aren't using tubeless.

And anyway, I'd likely lend them one of my CO2 instead of my pump since
I wouldn't want to wait for them to pump up their tires.

I know one guy using tubeless in my club and the last time he rode with
us he had a slow leak and had to stop every 20 km to pump the tires.
That's out of ~400 members.

Maybe I'm missing your point amid the lycra/co2 smoke...


I've helped strangers and friends by letting them use my pump. I didn't begrudge
the time at all. Generally it allows for some friendly conversation. And on one
ride that I've described from a couple years ago, three failures of various CO2
cartridges were a blessing. They allowed me some badly needed rest until the
guy with the flat finally borrowed my pump.

And since this is a discussion group, we could (ahem!) discuss the relative
advantages and disadvantages of both CO2 and lycra.

Unless, that is, tech skepticism is not allowed. If that's a rule now, I guess
only gushingly positive comments are appropriate.

- Frank Krygowski



  #39  
Old July 10th 19, 07:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 10:00:42 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 12:09:53 PM UTC-4, duane wrote:
On 10/07/2019 10:45 a.m., sms wrote:
On 7/6/2019 11:22 PM, Chalo wrote:
I was just observing to one of my coworkers that tubeless is the new
sewups-- inconvenient, messy, time-consuming, and totally useless for
99% of the people who think they're essential.

Anyone not going tubeless is standing in the way of human progress.

Seriously, for racers the weight savings make some sense since their
support vehicle will just hand them a replacement wheel and tire if they
get a flat, but for normal riders they're just an expensive hassle.

If you come across someone on the side of the road, asking to borrow
your pump, standing there in Lycra with empty CO2 cartridges on the
ground, you can be pretty certain that they're using tubeless. Any
minuscule time savings due to the slight weight savings is lost in the
noise when compared to the additional time to fix a flat.


Not sure what Lycra has to do with it or CO2 for that matter but
tubeless tires here are pretty much a rarity so I would be that they
aren't using tubeless.

And anyway, I'd likely lend them one of my CO2 instead of my pump since
I wouldn't want to wait for them to pump up their tires.

I know one guy using tubeless in my club and the last time he rode with
us he had a slow leak and had to stop every 20 km to pump the tires.
That's out of ~400 members.

Maybe I'm missing your point amid the lycra/co2 smoke...


I've helped strangers and friends by letting them use my pump. I didn't begrudge
the time at all. Generally it allows for some friendly conversation. And on one
ride that I've described from a couple years ago, three failures of various CO2
cartridges were a blessing. They allowed me some badly needed rest until the
guy with the flat finally borrowed my pump.

And since this is a discussion group, we could (ahem!) discuss the relative
advantages and disadvantages of both CO2 and lycra.

Unless, that is, tech skepticism is not allowed. If that's a rule now, I guess
only gushingly positive comments are appropriate.

- Frank Krygowski


Non-sport riders discussions of riding wear that is practical and not lycra would be appropriate but I don't think that most people here ride in that manner.
  #40  
Old July 10th 19, 07:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 7/10/2019 8:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

Yes. And the 1980 tires were worse:
https://patents.justia.com/assignee/...e-tire-company


I used a Bike Share bike in Vienna Austria last month. At first I
thought I had a flat. There was a thump with every revolution of the
front wheel. I was going to ask someone to borrow a pump. Then I noticed
that there was no valve. They must have been using airless tubes or
perhaps they filled the tire with expanding foam. Terrible bike but a
nice ride on the 21 km long carless Danube Island in the middle of the
Danube River. I guess it's understandable why a Bike Share company would
opt for tires with solid tubes.

 




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