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#481
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George, say it ain't so ....
On Mar 19, 11:55*pm, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote: "George Conklin" wrote in message ... And trains aren't an upper class subsidy anymore than cars are an upper class subsidy. *They're both simply subsidies. * Commuter trains in NYC are to to haul the rich to the city. Easy: *transit is not trains. OK, now you can admit it. *You're nuts ;-) CHANGING TOPICS: George, I know that you think all published studies are sancrosanct and that no one can dispute the Bureau of the Census, so hold onto your armchair -- your world may stop spinning. The director fo the Regioal Institute at the University at Buffalo (a real college) says the Census' population estimates might be wrongs. gulp http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/303541.html Oh, and she mentioned how they were wrong in the past, too. Real proof !!! Oh, no, what to do... what to do... |
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#482
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Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists
"Bolwerk" wrote in message ... Amy Blankenship wrote: "Bolwerk" wrote in message ... So...my response had nothing to do with you. I thought Martin would be interested. There's no need for you to be a dick about that. Cite? :-) Are you serious? I'll probably have to do some digging for a good one, though a cursory Google search will tell you what I said. The NY Times ran some photos last year, or maybe even early this year. I didn't save the article, but it's probably online. If you're serious, I'll look in the early afternoon. Ni, a cite of whether or not it is necessary for George to be a dick LOL... |
#483
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Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists
Pat wrote:
On Mar 19, 10:53 am, Martin Edwards wrote: Clark F Morris wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:10:24 GMT, Martin Edwards wrote: george conklin wrote: "Martin Edwards" wrote in message .uk... Bolwerk wrote: Pat wrote: On Mar 15, 12:13 pm, Bolwerk wrote: Eric Vey wrote: george conklin wrote: "Eric Vey" wrote in message ... We don't have white flight here much anymore. In fact, the black sections of town are being "redeveloped" (gentrified) and the blacks are moving where? To the suburbs. Whole subdivisions have gone from white to black and latino. Those so-called redevelopment areas are very, very heavily subsidized directly by government in order to move people with better incomes into the city and the poor out to the suburbs, a national trend. It is called the revanchist city, in a book by that name. This is not New York. They don't subsidize many developments around here directly. They did do some street improvements and new sewers since the old ones were worn out. That's not really common practice in New York either, although public-private efforts are. Yeah, NY subsidizes upscale highrises in NYC for rich folks. Go figure. Not directly, although it does provide tax breaks to them at times. NYC actually directly subsidizes lower income housing (too much, or at least inefficiently, IMHO). I haven't been there, but I have an impression of NYC mainly from cop shows. I get the feeling that, if there weren't such things as rent control, there would be a lot of jobs that could not be filled because the potential workers could not afford to live there. You mean you cannot afford $3,500 a month (plus utilities) for an efficiency apartment? Come on now...... I have bought my house here in Birmingham. Ain't got (a heap of) money, oh but honey, ain't I got fun. I assume you are talking about Birmingham, England. I believe it is the second largest city in England with over 1 million population, a good commuter rail network, massive intercity rail and a light rail line or two. Just so. I pay just over £200 for three months unlimited use of *all* carriers in the conurbation. That includes the portion of the London-Glasgow inter city line between Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Coventry. Who's going to drive that lousy freeway? (Ans.: the deeply indoctrinated). Well of course everyone rides trains where you live. It's unsafe to drive because you-all drive on the wrong side of the road. Duh. We sold it to the Japanese: that must be a first. -- Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
#484
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Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists
Bolwerk wrote:
Amy Blankenship wrote: "George Conklin" wrote in message ... "Bolwerk" wrote in message ... George Conklin wrote: But you must know that most jobs were NOT in the city, but in areas surrounding the city. Yes, many took the train in....a nice upper class subsidy for most, since trains lose money. But if you rich enough to afford a trip back to Westport in the New Haven's bar car, you were not suffering for a second car, except by choice. I don't know what it was like then, but there were and still are many millions of jobs in the city. Irrelevant to the total transportation mix where 85% of the trips are suburb to surburb. Jobs today are located in many places, not just downtown. And trains aren't an upper class subsidy anymore than cars are an upper class subsidy. They're both simply subsidies. Commuter trains in NYC are to to haul the rich to the city. And we certainly wouldn't want the rich to abandon their Hummers. I find it completely hilarious that you variously claim that transit can only work if people are desperately poor (so we shouldn't have it) AND that transit is only used by the very rich (so we shouldn't have it). Keep it up :-). You've made me smile today. It shouldn't surprise you. Lack of rhetorical focus is a common trait of ideologues and authoritarians. Jack May is even worse about it; notice how he can, in one trolling session, reject statistics because they're government-collected and support them because the government finds them trustworthy. The Bush administration is a pertinent example: leading up to the war in Iraq, they portrayed the United States army as untouchable, insisting that Saddam's puny military was no threat. The U.S. didn't really have any threats because we're so big and powerful. Yet, Saddam Hussein was such a threat we had to invade. Then, various reasons for invading were offered, depending on the prevailing coniditions. First there was WMD, but those were never shown to exist, so we moved to Iraq supporting al-Queda/other unnamed terrorists, and then there was the whole idea that we were removing a nasty dictator (as if no one worse existed elsewhere, or would fill the vacuum left by Saddam). Sometimes there was the altruistic excuse: we're helping a poor, oppressed people! Then after Saddam's fall, terrorists actually started showing up because of the power vacuum - indeed, Sadddam apparently prevented terrorism! Oh ****! New justification: what is it now? Democracy again? As a secular dictator, he provided women with more equality than in any other Arabic-speaking country except Tunisia, and the religious nuts could do nothing about it. -- Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
#485
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Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists
Bolwerk wrote:
George Conklin wrote: "Bolwerk" wrote in message ... Martin Edwards wrote: vey wrote: George Conklin wrote: "vey" wrote in message ... George Conklin wrote: "Bolwerk" wrote in message ... george conklin wrote: "Bolwerk" wrote in message ... george conklin wrote: "Clark F Morris" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 07:51:57 -0400, "george conklin" wrote: "vey" wrote in message ... george conklin wrote: The city does some but the state does more. Go look at the NYS HFA 80/20 program. It's major subsidies for upscale housing. This is pretty much the national pattern too. Sure it is. Alabama is a real hotbed for urban renewal. Texas, too. LOL! You don't know anything about demographic patterns. My comment was based on a conference on this issue with members of the census who were reporting on on-going work in their office on this issue. The new findings show that a national pattern to replace people in city cores with those of higher income is a national pattern. In fact, using taxpayer dollars to do this has been the result of the Hope VI projects for many years now. Cities are joining the suburbs in moving out the poor. While I don't always agree with George, the move to upgrade the economic mix is alive and well in most jurisdictions. The census shows that cities have moved the poor to the suburbs, according to the analysis by Brookings. Sounds like cities are getting their comeuppance, if that's true. Suburbs were designed to take the middle class from cities, and initially made no accommodation for the poor. Staring in 1900, city density overall began to decline as the rural population moved to cities and they expanded using "modern" (mechanical) means of transport. The invention of the railroad and trolley were NOT plots designed to lure the middle class from the cities. Your paranoid leanings should give you a visit to a physician for medication. First of all, yeah, they kind of were designed to lure the middle class from tenements (who said anything about plotting?). Second of all, I was referring to modern suburbanization with residential only subdivisions, not early 20th century "suburbanization," which I guess you want to conflate with postwar subdivisions. The postwar suburbs were less upper class, since transportation became cheaper. The APA loves upper class suburbs, but hated it when Levittown came along with affordable housing. This is all outlined nicely in Gan's book "The Levittowners," and nothing has changed since, using you as an example. And I guess you didn't know that many Levittowners rode the train into the city? "Most families in the early days only had one car. The wives that drove their husbands to the train station and got to keep the car all day were highly prized friends." And that quote comes from where? http://www.freeenterpriseland.com/BOOK/LITTLEBOXES.html As the houses only had two bedrooms and no garage, what is the market for them now? Levittown in particular? They apparently only have a few of those houses still in its original condition. Most have been heavily modified. Yes, people took out the metal kitchen cabinets, so? Or placed extensive additions onto the house, to the point where very few are recognizable in their original form (I believe one of the originals is an office for whatever authority manages the subdivision). So...my response had nothing to do with you. I thought Martin would be interested. There's no need for you to be a dick about that. Thanks for the update. -- Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
#486
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Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists
Amy Blankenship wrote:
"Bolwerk" wrote in message ... So...my response had nothing to do with you. I thought Martin would be interested. There's no need for you to be a dick about that. Cite? :-) Goerge being a dick? How many would you like? -- Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
#487
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George, say it ain't so ....
Pat wrote:
On Mar 19, 11:55 pm, "Amy Blankenship" wrote: "George Conklin" wrote in message ... And trains aren't an upper class subsidy anymore than cars are an upper class subsidy. They're both simply subsidies. Commuter trains in NYC are to to haul the rich to the city. Easy: transit is not trains. OK, now you can admit it. You're nuts ;-) CHANGING TOPICS: George, I know that you think all published studies are sancrosanct and that no one can dispute the Bureau of the Census, so hold onto your armchair -- your world may stop spinning. The director fo the Regioal Institute at the University at Buffalo (a real college) says the Census' population estimates might be wrongs. gulp http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/303541.html Oh, and she mentioned how they were wrong in the past, too. Real proof !!! Oh, no, what to do... what to do... Of course the estimates are going to be at least a little inaccurate. They're...estimates. The decennial count will be more accurate. Nevertheless, they probably show trends fairly accurately. Besides, have you ever seen Conklin use the census in a way that supports his poopoo? |
#488
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George, say it ain't so ....
"Bolwerk" wrote in message ... Pat wrote: http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/303541.html Oh, and she mentioned how they were wrong in the past, too. Real proof !!! Oh, no, what to do... what to do... Of course the estimates are going to be at least a little inaccurate. They're...estimates. The decennial count will be more accurate. Nevertheless, they probably show trends fairly accurately. Besides, have you ever seen Conklin use the census in a way that supports his poopoo? Dutch toilets have a little shelf that will, in fact, support anyone's poopoo. True story. :-) |
#489
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Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists
Amy Blankenship wrote:
"Bolwerk" wrote in message ... Amy Blankenship wrote: "Bolwerk" wrote in message ... So...my response had nothing to do with you. I thought Martin would be interested. There's no need for you to be a dick about that. Cite? :-) Are you serious? I'll probably have to do some digging for a good one, though a cursory Google search will tell you what I said. The NY Times ran some photos last year, or maybe even early this year. I didn't save the article, but it's probably online. If you're serious, I'll look in the early afternoon. Ni, a cite of whether or not it is necessary for George to be a dick LOL... George will have to be your cite. I don't reckon it's ever necessary for him to be a dick, but he really almost always is one in his posts. |
#490
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George, say it ain't so ....
"Pat" wrote in message ... On Mar 19, 11:55 pm, "Amy Blankenship" wrote: "George Conklin" wrote in message ... And trains aren't an upper class subsidy anymore than cars are an upper class subsidy. They're both simply subsidies. Commuter trains in NYC are to to haul the rich to the city. Easy: transit is not trains. OK, now you can admit it. You're nuts ;-) CHANGING TOPICS: George, I know that you think all published studies are sancrosanct and that no one can dispute the Bureau of the Census, so hold onto your armchair -- your world may stop spinning. The director fo the Regioal Institute at the University at Buffalo (a real college) says the Census' population estimates might be wrongs. gulp http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/303541.html Oh, and she mentioned how they were wrong in the past, too. Real proof !!! Oh, no, what to do... what to do... Cities in decline often beat up on the census because otherwise they have to admit failure. |
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